What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Sophie Scholl]

Donald "Poochie" Trump
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[Sophie Scholl]

...and it is apparently just about Space Force. What a joke. 

[Valmy]

...and it is apparently just about Space Force. What a joke. 

Told you. Like anybody gives a flying fuck where the lame ass space army is headquartered.

Anyway there he is. I told you God is not that merciful.

[DGuller]

It's getting increasingly difficult to take anything coning from them at face value. 

[HVC]

Trump reversed course on student visas for Chinese nationals. Guess the bribes came through.

[Valmy]

Trump reversed course on student visas for Chinese nationals. Guess the bribes came through.

Trans people just need to find a way to be specifically useful in being exploited by silicon valley and they can get everything they want.

[Sophie Scholl]

Oh, I have no doubt they'll have cameras in the camps to keep their trans porn flowing. 

[crazy canuck]

That is a question that will best be answered by historians like Oex in due course.  But with the limited information available to me, my best guess is economic inequality and the destruction of the American middle class.

That plays a role, sure...but less than you would think. Using the military against immigrants and minorities is something I have heard people call for my entire life.

Sure, but at the fringes. Something has changed to make the fringe dominant. It was not that long ago that all American political leaders were talking about the importance of immigrants and the contribution they have made and make to American society.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

standoff between fascists and people with morals.

'fascists' and fascists also have morals, they're just different from (y)ours.
Morals are not the same everywhere: most of the world has a rather different morality from what was until a few years ago the west. In many cases these morality systems don't include the same view on human rights for example. Or on gay people, or women, or minorities, or apostacy...
But I doubt you'd claim that all these people don't have morals even if their outlook on the world may be much much closer to that of the fascists. (just think about the morality system the muslim brotherhood wants to install in the west)

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, I tend to agree.

Which then raises the question of what has driven - and drives - such value changes.

My slight counter to that is that I think all through American history there is a very strong, and perhaps distincitvely American, tradition of isolationist, nativist, protectionist, populist, paranoid, conspiratorial politics. The champions and parties shift over time - they're not always the same and they rarely win high office. But it runs through the 19th century and the early 20th century like a stick of rock - it is the heart of the old right. At the less reputable end it's America First, more respectably it's Robert Taft.

I don't think it's for nothing that the second the wall falls you have Pat Buchanan running on exactly that type of "paleocon" style platform against George Bush Sr (who, of course, referred to a "new world order") and I think some of that energy also feeds into Perot.

I think it's less that values changed but that the external threat of the Soviet Union and communism disappeared and that acted as a discipling force for the vast majority of the American elite and their politics. I think you also see that also in the "bipartisanship" that is often mourned now, but also the fairer split of the shares between labour and capital. There was an external big bad to fight - it's why I think Taft is so interesting because he was running in the Republican primary in 48 or 52 running on an anti-NATO, return to interwar American isolationism. I think it's key that he is defeated because without that I don't think you get the bipartisanship or the related commitment to an American world order based on its alliances.

[Valmy]

That is a question that will best be answered by historians like Oex in due course.  But with the limited information available to me, my best guess is economic inequality and the destruction of the American middle class.

That plays a role, sure...but less than you would think. Using the military against immigrants and minorities is something I have heard people call for my entire life.

Sure, but at the fringes. Something has changed to make the fringe dominant. It was not that long ago that all American political leaders were talking about the importance of immigrants and the contribution they have made and make to American society.

Fringes among the political leaders. Among the people and conservative commentators? Not so much. Donald Trump just demonstrated that the idea there was this moderate center you had to pretend to appeal to just wasn't the case.

Anyway recall that GWB tried to rationalize the immigration laws and the furious backlash from enraged conservatives all over the country made him change course. Obama thought becoming the "deporter-in-chief" was essential to his re-election. So these people were always pandered to, even when their wishes would be disastrous for the country and the economy if actually implemented.

[Tamas]

standoff between fascists and people with morals.

'fascists' and fascists also have morals, they're just different from (y)ours.
Morals are not the same everywhere: most of the world has a rather different morality from what was until a few years ago the west. In many cases these morality systems don't include the same view on human rights for example. Or on gay people, or women, or minorities, or apostacy...
But I doubt you'd claim that all these people don't have morals even if their outlook on the world may be much much closer to that of the fascists. (just think about the morality system the muslim brotherhood wants to install in the west)

Fine, it's fascists vs. decent people

[Valmy]

standoff between fascists and people with morals.

'fascists' and fascists also have morals, they're just different from (y)ours.
Morals are not the same everywhere: most of the world has a rather different morality from what was until a few years ago the west. In many cases these morality systems don't include the same view on human rights for example. Or on gay people, or women, or minorities, or apostacy...
But I doubt you'd claim that all these people don't have morals even if their outlook on the world may be much much closer to that of the fascists. (just think about the morality system the muslim brotherhood wants to install in the west)

Damn moral relativists

[Valmy]

standoff between fascists and people with morals.

'fascists' and fascists also have morals, they're just different from (y)ours.
Morals are not the same everywhere: most of the world has a rather different morality from what was until a few years ago the west. In many cases these morality systems don't include the same view on human rights for example. Or on gay people, or women, or minorities, or apostacy...
But I doubt you'd claim that all these people don't have morals even if their outlook on the world may be much much closer to that of the fascists. (just think about the morality system the muslim brotherhood wants to install in the west)

Fine, it's fascists vs. decent people

Don't let Crazy Ivan's limp wristed lame ways get you to soften your stance.

[Josquius]

...and it is apparently just about Space Force. What a joke. 

Told you. Like anybody gives a flying fuck where the lame ass space army is headquartered.

Anyway there he is. I told you God is not that merciful.

Hopium.
But a theory I have read and rather like (not I see something in it. I just like it) is that the purpose of the press conference was actually about trump dying.
They realised the rumours were getting bad as something is up with him (but they're hoping to keep him going another 18 months?) and this transfer was something they were planning on doing anyways so was an excuse to wheel him out.