What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Norgy]

The idea of reducing the use of plastics to save the oceans is perhaps strange to us, but in the Pacific ocean and the Med there's more plastic than there used to be air carriers and u-boots during World War II.

I'd vote for keeping the plastic in the "Real Wives"-series.

[Threviel]

So, apparently Denmark has made the biggest arm purchase in Danish history, CV90s from Sweden. One of the major reasons is that Denmark feels a need to fulfil demands from Nato. Presumably, me guessing here, they feel a more pressing need since the orange dimwit US government might otherwise throw a hissy fit.

So, one possible positive thing from Trump at least. Nations that previously irresponsibly grossly underspent on defense getting their heads in order and behaving like adults.

Sweden has also joined in on the deal and it includes undisclosed amounts of aid to Ukraine.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Trump isn't always wrong 

A shock I know.

European freeriding and reliance on US defence is pretty shabby behaviour by such wealthy countries.

[Norgy]

Trump isn't always wrong 

A shock I know.

European freeriding and reliance on US defence is pretty shabby behaviour by such wealthy countries.

I agree. Defence spending here is up by billions now. Going from two blokes in a tent near the Russian border to at least five at a minimum. We've also invested in submarines and our special forces. And I think "special" here isn't those who get extra reading lessons.

[HVC]

How close are you to the 2 percent?

[Josquius]

Some slight optimism has been coming in.
One advantage Trump will have is he won't have Trump's acolytes constantly trying to disrupt everything he wants to do.
...the trouble is a lot of what he wants to do is awful.


The trouble with military spending in Europe is there's so much redundancy. Everyone wants to support their own military industry....but not too much.

[Threviel]

The US despicably backing out of aid to Ukraine, which seems like the probable route, has maybe gotten our politicians to do what they should have done day 1 of the war, properly spend enough on consequential military aid to Ukraine. The resent partnership of the Baltic countries and Poland an example.

[Sheilbh]

Trump isn't always wrong 

A shock I know.

European freeriding and reliance on US defence is pretty shabby behaviour by such wealthy countries.

Yeah I totally agree. This has been a consistent message from American Presidents (along with the desire to focus on the Pacific) since at least 2008 - also striking that basically in every election since 2008 the American people have voted for the candidate promising  more restrained foreign policy.

We've had plenty of time to take the hint.

And, bluntly, European allies include the world's 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th largest economies - we can afford regional security. Obviously the other complication is that there are some differences, fairly united on Ukraine, but very different views on, say, North Africa (we had Italy and France funding different forces in Libya at one point).

[Josquius]

Trump isn't always wrong 

A shock I know.

European freeriding and reliance on US defence is pretty shabby behaviour by such wealthy countries.

Yeah I totally agree. This has been a consistent message from American Presidents (along with the desire to focus on the Pacific) since at least 2008 - also striking that basically in every election since 2008 the American people have voted for the candidate promising  more restrained foreign policy.

We've had plenty of time to take the hint.

And, bluntly, European allies include the world's 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th largest economies - we can afford regional security. Obviously the other complication is that there are some differences, fairly united on Ukraine, but very different views on, say, North Africa (we had Italy and France funding different forces in Libya at one point).

Key problem to highlight is Trump is basically pushing Europe out of the plane and screaming "Learn to fly!".
Valid points to be made this needs to be done to some extent. Even Ukraine has led to minimal change. But Trump is overdoing it and really teaching China, which he claims to care about, that invading their neighbours is fine.

[Sheilbh]

Sure but as I say the US has been making this point to Europe since 2008. At the very least Europe has had since 2016 to deal with the very real issues of Trump.

I think (and this is not the only issue where I think there's a similar pattern, see also: Russian gas, dependence on China) it's less being pushed out a plane and more this:

[HVC]

Difference is that America, and to extent much of the western world, actually cares about what happens to Taiwan.

[Sheilbh]

Difference is that America, and to extent much of the western world, actually cares about what happens to Taiwan.

I don't think much of Europe cares at all - I think maybe France and the UK.

I'm not 100% sure that all Western European countries really "cares" about the Baltic States far less Taiwan.

[HVC]

Difference is that America, and to extent much of the western world, actually cares about what happens to Taiwan.

I don't think much of Europe cares at all - I think maybe France and the UK.

I'm not 100% sure that all Western European countries really "cares" about the Baltic States far less Taiwan.

I'm sure Europeans countries  care more about Taiwanese semi conductors then they did (do) about Ukraine and by extension of caring losing  access to their sweet sweet cheap Russian gas.

[Threviel]

Europe has had since Georgia in 2008 to get its shit together, everything since then has only escalated and the US has been nagging about it. There are no excuses for what our politicians have been doing, its bordering on treasonous incompetence.

Europe alone, hell, any one of the three big countries alone, should easily have been able to supply Ukraine and should have been menacing enough beforehand that the war wouldn't even happen.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Considering

Difference is that America, and to extent much of the western world, actually cares about what happens to Taiwan.

I don't think much of Europe cares at all - I think maybe France and the UK.

I'm not 100% sure that all Western European countries really "cares" about the Baltic States far less Taiwan.

Western European countries don't seem to particular care when Russia carries out assassinations and sabotage operations on their soil.