What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[11B4V]

But if you think people may see you as a Nazi sympathizer, you may want to reconsider your conduct.

If you think someone is threatening your way of life and the way of life of your fellow citizens, and you firmly believe the government is turning a blind eye to that mortal danger you and your companionship percieve and then decide to act on it, violently I mean, than what is the real different?

What is exactly is the difference between a radical leftist group who does not believe in democracy and free trade and a radical rightwing group who does not believe in democracy and free trade?  The stance on immigration?  That is reason enough to justify undermining the rule of law?

What

[Oexmelin]

Viper really, really, really wants people to agree that student demonstrators, union leaders, anti-globalisation people are just as bad as neo nazis.

[Jacob]

Viper really, really, really wants people to agree that student demonstrators, union leaders, anti-globalisation people are just as bad as neo nazis.

Thanks for the translation

[Eddie Teach]

I am genuinely puzzled: Do you all see no actual difference between marching armed with semi-automatic weapons promoting Nazi ideology and, say, organizing "the Women's March on Washington".

Turnout in the hundreds instead of the hundred thousands.

[Jacob]

[Jacob]

Did you catch the reports that Brannon apparently calling Prospect Magazine and giving an unsolicited interview Mooch style?

Not sure how much is been corroborated https://www.vox.com/2017/8/16/16159668/steve-bannon-china-economic-war-north-korea-charlottesville-american-prospect

Here's the actual article: http://prospect.org/article/steve-bannon-unrepentant

Reading it now, I do think there are some themes that Seedy will find appealing.

[jimmy olsen]

Seems like the folks of Charlottesville, especially the clergy whose lives they saved, are quite happy antifa showed up.

Several interview with residents in here
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

On Tuesday, after a weekend that included a white supremacist mowing down and killing a peaceful counter-protester in Charlottesville and Nazis marching on the University of Virginia with torches, the president of the United States stood in front of the American people and said, "What about the 'alt-left' that came charging at, as you say, the 'alt-right'? Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging—that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do."

There were, as it turns out, a great number of Charlottesville locals present to witness the violence and lawlessness on display in this town—my town—last weekend. I asked local witnesses, many in the faith community, every one of whom was on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday, whether there was a violent, club-wielding mob threatening the good people on team Nazi. Here's what I heard back:

Brandy Daniels
Postdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I'm guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.

Less than 10 minutes later, a much larger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myself—I know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldn't fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasn't letting go.

At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafe—it had gotten very violent very fast—and told us to disperse quickly.

While one obviously can't objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or "sliding doors"–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn't roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

Rabbi Rachel Schmelkin
Congregation Beth Israel

There was a group of antifa defending First United Methodist Church right outside in their parking lot, and at one point the white supremacists came by and antifa chased them off with sticks.

Rebekah Menning
Charlottesville resident

I stood with a group of interfaith clergy and other people of faith in a nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally. We had far fewer people holding the line than we had hoped for, and frankly, it wasn't enough. No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn't have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I've never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.

Mary Esselman
Writer

My 13-year-old son and I stood by ourselves on the corner down the street from the synagogue, in front of the Catholic Church, trying to walk back home but interrupted by a stream of white extremist marchers, with their signs and firearms and crazy regalia. I felt like an idiot but tried to look each in the eye and said, "Peace," and "Peace be with you," with as much sincerity as I had in me, trying to reach some humanity in them, and they jeered and mocked me, called me what you might imagine, told my son, Luke, that his mom was a this and a that. And now I learn that my son and labradoodle and I, and our little "peace be with you"s are apparently "alt-left."

Our path home was blocked by them, and we had no choice but to face them. Just us alone on that street corner, and all of them menacing, streaming past us on their way to the rally. Later, when we were a block away from where everyone was clashing and considering going to the front steps of the public library, there was a big line of white supremacists, the leader wearing some kind of yellow spiked helmet, and as they tromped toward the rally, these lovely older women standing beside us wearing sky blue T-shirts that said "Quaker" kind of trotted alongside them gently, holding signs that said "Love." Alt-left for sure. I was armed with my iPhone and my dog's leash. Luke was armed with his acne and hormones.

Rev. Seth Wispelwey
Directing minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city's streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery "stars and bars."

Out of my faith calling, I feel led to pursue disciplined, nonviolent direct action and witness. I helped lead a group of clergy who were trained and committed to the same work: to hold space on the frontline of the park where the rally was to be held. And then some of us tried to take the steps to one of the entrances. God is not OK with white supremacy, and God is on the side of all those it tries to dehumanize. We feel a responsibility to visibly, bodily show our solidarity with the oppressed and marginalized.

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them. They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn't see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.

[Valmy]

Well what do you have to say to that Spicey?

[Jacob]

Well what do you have to say to that Spicey?

Some variation of "fake news", I'm guessing.

[jimmy olsen]

Does this mean that they're genre savy or not? 

Neo-Nazis wearing Hydra shirts
https://mobile.twitter.com/meakoopa/status/897976055339896832

[jimmy olsen]

Reading between the lines, I think the mayor of Phoenix fears Trump is going to try to whip up a riot by pardoning Arapio.

[The Brain]

What's the deal with the people working in the White House? I read that several of them were very upset by Trump's comments (one of them supposedly "deeply disturbed" and "disgusted"). If my employer ever made me disgusted I would quit the same day, yet these people labor on under Trump. The White House appears to be staffed by a combination of Nazis and pathetically spineless losers (with significant overlap).

[garbon]

What's the deal with the people working in the White House? I read that several of them were very upset by Trump's comments (one of them supposedly "deeply disturbed" and "disgusted"). If my employer ever made me disgusted I would quit the same day, yet these people labor on under Trump. The White House appears to be staffed by a combination of Nazis and pathetically spineless losers (with significant overlap).

Well not everyone has the resources to just quit without another job available, CdM?

[garbon]

Did you catch the reports that Brannon apparently calling Prospect Magazine and giving an unsolicited interview Mooch style?

Not sure how much is been corroborated https://www.vox.com/2017/8/16/16159668/steve-bannon-china-economic-war-north-korea-charlottesville-american-prospect

Here's the actual article: http://prospect.org/article/steve-bannon-unrepentant

Reading it now, I do think there are some themes that Seedy will find appealing.

Such a strange world. Steve Bannon dislikes the alt right, Trump loves them?

[Tamas]

I stood with a group of interfaith clergy and other people of faith in a nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally. We had far fewer people holding the line than we had hoped for, and frankly, it wasn't enough. No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn't have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I've never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.

But see, this is the police's fault. If there is a demonstration by extremists who are known to be violent, there should be riot police ready to stomp their guts out if they start something. If the Hungarian police can manage to send riot police to keep high school and university students in check, surely the American one can deal with some neo-Nazis?

If the police failed to prevent violence, then this must be investigated and public pressure put on them to actually do their job, and stop turning a blind eye just because their ranks are full of nazis as well.

But the correct response of society is NOT to have vigilante militias take over from the police.