What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[mongers]

my girlfriend's health insurance premiums increased by $150/month from 160 to 310/month. rather than have her waste money by throwing it at obamacare, I figure I can marry her (courthouse, no ceremony) and charge her the difference. makes a profit $$ on this but it forces us into matrimony when otherwise I'd not go through the hassle right now

Have you been living in sin?

No, all his sinfulness is contained within his posts. 

[mongers]

This is what it looks like:

[OttoVonBismarck]

So how is the Washington District Judge's order legitimate? My understanding is the constitution leaves it up to Congress to determine immigration/travel policy. Congress has done so, and under those laws the President basically has broad discretion in canceling visas. While more limited in scope, Obama did block travel from Iraq for a time. George W. Bush blocked travel from some countries as well after 9/11 (temporarily.) The only real material difference I see is that neither of those Presidents used "anti-Muslim" rhetoric, or characterized prior to their Presidencies the action as a "Muslim ban." Additionally, Bush was given a degree of historic latitude after 9/11. But I'd still think the law is the law, right? Is it really the case the judiciary is going to undo this EO (Trump isn't likely to succeed at the 9th Circuit on appeal, and the SCOTUS is split 4-4 so will likely deadlock) when it would've allowed it under Obama or Bush, simply because Turmp has issued it while saying stupid things and characterizing it in a bigoted way during the election? I wouldn't have thought the judiciary could make decisions based on factors like that.

[viper37]

Obama did block travel from Iraq for a time.

No, he did not.  He ordered more thorough security checks.  The practical effect was to restrict people coming from Iraq to entering the US for a little while, but it was never a ban.

George W. Bush blocked travel from some countries as well after 9/11 (temporarily.)

Refresh my memory please.

But I'd still think the law is the law, right?

The law is the law, but it must conform to other US laws too, otherwise, Trump could simply issue an EO saying he doesn't need to step down after 2 mandates, or he can choose his successor, etc, etc.

You have a Constitution for the Federal government, and the 1st ruling is the order was illegal.  Joan will explain the legalities of it better than any of us can, so I'll just wait.

[CountDeMoney]

Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump  5h

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
   
6:26 AM - 4 Feb 2017

Just random shouting now.  He is so coked out today.

[Syt]

Drain the swamp!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/us/politics/donald-trump-business.html

Trust Records Show Trump Is Still Closely Tied to His Empire

[grumbler]

Drain the swamp!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/us/politics/donald-trump-business.html

Trust Records Show Trump Is Still Closely Tied to His Empire

You've forgotten that Trump openly abandoned "Drain the Swamp" after he used it to get elected.  I don't think even his supporters expected him to pass up the chance to make money as president.  Taking bribes is only corrupt if you act as the bribers want you to, and even then only if you act that way because they paid you bribes, right?  I believe Trump's position is that he can take bribes and make money in other ways so long as he always does what he wants.

[mongers]

So swamping the drain would be more accurate?

[Liep]

What is your country coming to?

[garbon]

What is your country coming to?

Coming to meet you whether you like it or not.

[Admiral Yi]

So how is the Washington District Judge's order legitimate?

Seems to me 1182 doesn't grant the power to suspend travel rights of resident aliens.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Due to Languish's slowness in responding to my questions I had to go read the judge's ruling myself. It looks the judge didn't elaborate in his ruling why he thinks the plaintiffs are likely to win their case (one of the requirements of issuing a TRO), but he did suggest in court that the ban isn't rational since no one from the seven countries mentioned has been arrested for a terrorism offense since 9/11. So it would seem at least part of the trouble Trump will face is he didn't establish any real rational basis for his actions, and my perusing of the laws that allow for suspensions of visas and what not suggest that while high officials do have discretionary powers, those discretionary powers are specified as requiring some thin veneer of justification. While the judge obviously isn't required to rule on the merits verbosely to issue a TRO, this does at least suggest Trump could outright lose the case because he has no rational basis for his actions.

Bush and Obama both did, because they were dealing with specific security concerns.

While it wasn't gotten into in court by Robart that I can see, the religious-preference aspects of the executive order could also present establishment clause problems, particularly given Trump's and his surrogate's actual words spoken on the matter.

Seems like Trump is probably in bad legal waters. I don't doubt that he can still find a way to institute something akin to this, but he's going to need to craft an order that is more narrowly focused and more tied to specific, articulable concerns. Or he needs Congress to outright change the law, which  it looks like he's going to have trouble getting, not enough Republicans are willing to sign on for this kind of thing.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So how is the Washington District Judge's order legitimate?

Seems to me 1182 doesn't grant the power to suspend travel rights of resident aliens.

For sure, I think any part of the order that applied to permanent residents was entirely invalid from the start. The law is more protective of their rights to come and go, and they're less subject to the uncertainties inherent with visa covered travel. But at least based on his words in court I don't think Judge Robart issued his ruling because of the effect on permanent residents. He specified that he found the EO harmed Americans due to its effect on businesses, schools and etc, and mentioned in court he found the President had no rational argument for his actions.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Refresh my memory please.

What Bush actually did was suspended refugee admissions into the country for three months, while new security standards were put in place. Trump's order is a little different because it did more than just suspend refugees, it also blocked normal visa travel from seven specific countries. Bush's order was broader in a sense in that it applied to the entire U.S. refugee program, but also wasn't targeted at specific countries.

Banning travel from a single specific country isn't without precedent in times of diplomatic crisis or war, but again, those are in times of diplomatic crisis or war. Trump's order is fairly unprecedented and probably on legally murkier standing since he targeted seven Muslim states almost with no logical reasoning behind why he chose them, and in absence of any other ongoing factors like say, war with those countries, ongoing demonstrable security concerns or etc.

[MadImmortalMan]

Wait. Nobody from any of those seven countries has been arrested for terrorism-related charges since 2001?