What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[celedhring]

Der Furor's rally in Cincy:  America First!

Spoken to several foreign leaders:  they have such respect for us. One of them told him that he "truly respects the United States again."

You'll be happy to know, that Orban has declared that democratic forces have won back the US, there is "still work for us to do" in Europe, but "we are getting there!"


Really, ever since Trump won the fascists in Hungary has had a constant jizz-in-the-pants fest, they feel like they personally rule the US now. It is tiring.

It is kinda weird to see far-right governments cheering each other, when at the end of the day they hate the guts out of foreigners. I can kinda understand alpha male nations doing that, but Orban should be aware that in a world full of Putins and Trumps, it's the Hungaries the ones that will get shafted

[Duque de Bragança]

Zoupa will change his mind when he is herded into a "re-education" camp.

Incidentally, I'm now rooting for Le Pen in France.  If Western society is going to collapse I want a few other countries to cushion the fall.

Bah, Le Pen's daughter is way mellower than her father and seems to base her agenda in part with a good ole '70s left program.

Of course, as said by the Normandie Führer, the niece is much better, and more radical actually if I may add.

[CountDeMoney]

It is kinda weird to see far-right governments cheering each other, when at the end of the day they hate the guts out of foreigners.

"You stay over there, we stay over here."

It was pretty funny seeing Donald Trump talking about the Carrier jobs at the rally yesterday, how it wouldn't have been so bad or such a big deal if they moved to another state, but out of the country? 

Indiana jobs moving to Texas?  No big deal
Indiana jobs moving to Mexico? No way, Jose!

I can kinda understand alpha male nations doing that, but Orban should be aware that in a world full of Putins and Trumps, it's the Hungaries the ones that will get shafted

I dunno, potatoes like Marti don't seem to mind rooting for people who would hate him if the knew him.

[Eddie Teach]

Indiana jobs moving to Texas?  No big deal
Indiana jobs moving to Mexico? No way, Jose!

You can get along here without learning Spanish.

[CountDeMoney]

Indiana jobs moving to Texas?  No big deal
Indiana jobs moving to Mexico? No way, Jose!

You can get along here without learning Spanish.

Mucho mejor!

[Oexmelin]

I supported him so much I voted third party!

Of course you did.

[Valmy]

I don't like the Dems' popular vote argument because it is extremely dishonest.
If the situation would have been the reverse, the electoral college system would be praised by all Democrats as the bastion of true democracy, and the saver of America.

And this is what makes me so despairing. This should not be a partisan issues and since it is one of the things I want is probably truly fucked.

But it IS a big issue. Some votes shouldn't count more than others simply because where you live. No other election in the US is run this way.

[merithyn]

You can't argue that a 2.5 million vote lead is pretty significant, even if it's not 50%.

I'm not going to argue against that. Just Tim was saying she'd reach 50% when all the votes were counted, which was crazy considering she was at 47% with 120 million already in.

I don't like the Dems' popular vote argument because it is extremely dishonest.
If the situation would have been the reverse, the electoral college system would be praised by all Democrats as the bastion of true democracy, and the saver of America.

Dems are still claiming that the Electoral College System is the saver of America, if only they will vote for Hillary instead of T-rump. That it's job is to save the country from despots like him.

Mind you, when Bush Jr. won without the popular vote, there were grumblings about the EC but no one really expected the EC to vote Gore in and the cries or dismantling the EC weren't nearly as in-your-face. There is a huge difference, imo. That 2.5 million votes difference to start with. The utter incompetence of T-rump to end with.

[Tamas]

Well, it is an interesting topic, just how much the whole "democracy" thing is a charade everywhere. I won't even get started on stuff like Hungary's most recent election laws because that's just a big bucket of lols, but things like the electorates int he US, or the "first past the post" or however you call the British system, where the 3rd popular party could barely squeeze a single MP into Parliament... well, they make you think.

[merithyn]

Well, it is an interesting topic, just how much the whole "democracy" thing is a charade everywhere. I won't even get started on stuff like Hungary's most recent election laws because that's just a big bucket of lols, but things like the electorates int he US, or the "first past the post" or however you call the British system, where the 3rd popular party could barely squeeze a single MP into Parliament... well, they make you think.

The more that I learn about how badly gerrymandered voting districts are, the voter disenfranchisement laws, and how some votes in the US are worth more than others, the less I believe that we really are a democracy anymore. It feels more and more like an oligarchy, and I don't like it at all. But yeah, is there anywhere that's any better?

[FunkMonk]

Fun night  

Height of my evening was getting yelled at by protesters while we were waiting in line to get in.  There were three different clumps of protesters in the overall group.  First time I had ever been to or near a protest where they had a thick line of police separating two opposing groups.  First group was composed of die-hard Hillary supporters chanting "two point five" at us.  I inadvertently started a "lock her up" chant that drowned them out. 

When we got up near the group of Bernie supporters, they were yelling "love trumps hate!" to which I started chanting "block that kick!" and the same people in line with me joined in.  I guess they'll chant anything. 

Thanks for the trip report 

[Valmy]

Well, it is an interesting topic, just how much the whole "democracy" thing is a charade everywhere. I won't even get started on stuff like Hungary's most recent election laws because that's just a big bucket of lols, but things like the electorates int he US, or the "first past the post" or however you call the British system, where the 3rd popular party could barely squeeze a single MP into Parliament... well, they make you think.

Democracy is the idea that sovereign legitimacy comes from the assent of the governed. The fact that it does not exist anywhere is a 100% perfect form so therefore is a "charade" is stupid and a great example of the "perfect being the enemy of the good" crap. The very fact powerful people go out of their way to try to game the system to get a piece of that legitimacy shows it is not a "charade".

Obviously nothing is ever going to achieve a 100% platonic ideal. So therefore everything is a charade?

The more that I learn about how badly gerrymandered voting districts are, the voter disenfranchisement laws, and how some votes in the US are worth more than others, the less I believe that we really are a democracy anymore. It feels more and more like an oligarchy, and I don't like it at all. But yeah, is there anywhere that's any better?

"anymore"? Was all of that invented yesterday? Despite this the will of the people continues to be a huge factor in American politics going back decades. That is not to say reforms continually have to be made but we have had many reform periods in American history, so the idea that there is this all powerful oligarchy with no check at all upon it is just not true.

[merithyn]

The more that I learn about how badly gerrymandered voting districts are, the voter disenfranchisement laws, and how some votes in the US are worth more than others, the less I believe that we really are a democracy anymore. It feels more and more like an oligarchy, and I don't like it at all. But yeah, is there anywhere that's any better?

"anymore"? Was all of that invented yesterday? Despite this the will of the people continues to be a huge factor in American politics going back decades. That is not to say reforms continually have to be made but we have had many reform periods in American history, so the idea that there is this all powerful oligarchy with no check at all upon it is just not true.

No, but it feels like it's happening more now than ever. I know, logically, that's not the case. I know that our country has always done things this way. But the past few years - going back to Obama's second election - it's just felt different. I can't explain it, but there's a fear that never used to be there. I don't know if it's social media pushing things to the brink, the politicians themselves and who they are, or just that I'm getting older and more jaded about the system. But something has changed, and I don't particularly care for it.

[Tamas]

Well, it is an interesting topic, just how much the whole "democracy" thing is a charade everywhere. I won't even get started on stuff like Hungary's most recent election laws because that's just a big bucket of lols, but things like the electorates int he US, or the "first past the post" or however you call the British system, where the 3rd popular party could barely squeeze a single MP into Parliament... well, they make you think.

The more that I learn about how badly gerrymandered voting districts are, the voter disenfranchisement laws, and how some votes in the US are worth more than others, the less I believe that we really are a democracy anymore. It feels more and more like an oligarchy, and I don't like it at all. But yeah, is there anywhere that's any better?

Also the question: do you want it any better?

For example: the thought of dynasties controlling and running a "democracy" is detestable from a morals point of view, but is it really that bad?

At least, if you are part of the elite, one of the dynasties controlling the country, you have a vested interest in keeping things workable on the long run.

When you don't have that, your country is very vulnerable to political adventurers, and in general no leadership will be looking at implications beyond a 4, maybe 8 years period.

In both cases there is a significant chance of no needed reforms passing, but at least when you are just keeping the seat warm for your own circles/family, you have less inclination to just squeeze everything out of the country you can in  4 years.

And in case of a country with functional separation of branches of power, you still have to adhere to basic laws and you still have to actually win an election.

[Syt]

In German federal elections you have two votes: one for a candidate in your district (1st vote) and one for a party list (2nd vote).

Seats are awarded by percent of party list votes. So if you carry 25% of the vote, you get 25% of the seats. These seats are then filled with the members of your party that won their direct mandate with the 1st vote. Any remaining seats are filled from the party list.

A downside to this system is that you may win more direct mandates than the % of votes would grant you; e.g. a smaller party may win 15 direct mandates but only have 2nd votes for 13. The number of seats in parliament is then increased until the number of their 1st and 2nd vote match.

Voting districts are based on population so that each one has roughly the same number of eligible voters. Once a district deviates by 25% from the average, adjustments are required. The voting districts for the 2013 election were: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Karte_der_Wahlkreise_fuer_die_Wahl_zum_18._Deutschen_Bundestag_mit_administrativen_Einheiten.svg