Canadian professor under fire for refusing to use genderless pronouns

[Martinus]

3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.

Solmyr, can you explain this one to me?

For a lawyer you really don't seem to like reading. The link I posted explains it quite well.

It's gibberish - I was hoping you will explain it to me.

[Solmyr]

3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.

Solmyr, can you explain this one to me?

For a lawyer you really don't seem to like reading. The link I posted explains it quite well.

It's gibberish - I was hoping you will explain it to me.

Nah. It's quite clear. Not my problem if you fail to understand.

[Grinning_Colossus]

The proliferation of personalized personal pronouns is the sort of thing that can quickly become unmanageable. Situations will inevitably arise in which individuals find that nothing on the menu of common alt pronouns quite suits their identity and come up with new variations of their own. 'They' is an alternative, although there seems to be no clear link between genderless pronouns and gender egalitarianism in societies (e.g. Farsi and Dari have genderless pronouns).

[Oexmelin]

Not to mention, a proposition that college students never engage in any behaviour that is irrational, dishonest, prankish, trollish, or meant to create irritation and annoyance, is easily falsifiable.

You mean just like that U of T professor who is grandstanding for very little?

The way such a policy is set up in colleges acts as a buffer against trollish behavior. I have also found that, despite your expectations (or is it projections?), students who are thinking of taking advantage of such policies are reasonable and will make all sorts of allowances for awkwardness. Students who are politically opposed to such policy usually protest in other ways. These will, of course, not make it in whatever media thrives on daily rightwing outrage. I am also pretty sure that some students will, at one point or another, protest this doing silly, offensive, stupid shit. It's quite expected. It will hopefully spur debate. Then they will move on.

But I will readily admit my reading of the situation is only based on my daily experience with college students, rather than being expertly informed by regurgitated breibart and 4chan posts.

[Valmy]

Well I don't want to be anybody's friend who is going to label me a monster for making a simple pronoun error.

Go be somebody else's friend you touchy asshole. I mean I presume that person would just say 'um hey you made a mistake I prefer to be referred to as XXXX' and not just presume 10 horrible things about me.

You mean just like that U of T professor who is grandstanding for very little?

The funny thing is I actually disagreed with the prof and said I would prefer genderless pronouns.

[PDH]

The basic rule of life is to not be a douchebag.  Sure there are many out there who are douchebags, but returning the favor does nothing but elevate the blood pressure.  If some young thing is specially hurt (and thus being douchy) by the wrong pronoun, then just call them what they ask.

Really, it is like an apology.  Even if you are not wrong, it is not a fucking big deal to say "sorry" in order to smooth the social situation.  Only a douchebag would refuse to say such because "I did nothing wrong."

I ran across very few students who demanded special anything, and some whom I thought should have asked for whatever accommodation refused such.  Just don't be a douche, and despite the douchebags out there, at least you are acting in an ok manner.

[CountDeMoney]

We've been playing this game ever since men decided to grow their hair long.

"Ma'am?"
"Huh?"
"Oh, pardon me, sir."

[crazy canuck]

Not to mention, a proposition that college students never engage in any behaviour that is irrational, dishonest, prankish, trollish, or meant to create irritation and annoyance, is easily falsifiable.

You mean just like that U of T professor who is grandstanding for very little?

The way such a policy is set up in colleges acts as a buffer against trollish behavior. I have also found that, despite your expectations (or is it projections?), students who are thinking of taking advantage of such policies are reasonable and will make all sorts of allowances for awkwardness. Students who are politically opposed to such policy usually protest in other ways. These will, of course, not make it in whatever media thrives on daily rightwing outrage. I am also pretty sure that some students will, at one point or another, protest this doing silly, offensive, stupid shit. It's quite expected. It will hopefully spur debate. Then they will move on.

But I will readily admit my reading of the situation is only based on my daily experience with college students, rather than being expertly informed by regurgitated breibart and 4chan posts.

I recently interviewed a trans gendered person who I was considering to provide training to our clients regarding the recent amendments to our human rights code.   They were very understanding as I fumbled over the proper pronouns to use.

[crazy canuck]

I ran across very few students who demanded special anything, and some whom I thought should have asked for whatever accommodation refused such.  Just don't be a douche, and despite the douchebags out there, at least you are acting in an ok manner.

It is my observation that the students most in need of appropriate accommodations are often the ones least likely to seek them out.

[Solmyr]

Yeah, it really is not like you are going to be labeled a monster for failing to remember hundreds of pronouns. That argument exists only in the minds of people who oppose the use of preferred pronouns. Most people are, in fact, very understanding even if you don't get it right, as long as you are willing to respect them in turn and learn.

[grumbler]

Yeah, it really is not like you are going to be labeled a monster for failing to remember hundreds of pronouns. That argument exists only in the minds of people who oppose the use of preferred pronouns. Most people are, in fact, very understanding even if you don't get it right, as long as you are willing to respect them in turn and learn.

But, earlier, you argued that "Essentially, the only time this comes up is when you talk about that person to some third person. And in that case, you sure as hell can remember what pronoun they use."  The implication was that failure to do so could only be the result of disrespect.    Now, you argue that failure is understandable.  Are you changing your mind, or just using whatever argument seems convenient?

[Hamilcar]

Yeah, it really is not like you are going to be labeled a monster for failing to remember hundreds of pronouns. That argument exists only in the minds of people who oppose the use of preferred pronouns. Most people are, in fact, very understanding even if you don't get it right, as long as you are willing to respect them in turn and learn.

This just isn't true. Failure to conform and accommodate is being punished severely.

Here's a student who was sent to "re-education" for calling himself "handsome" (the horror!): http://thetab.com/us/columbia/2016/10/01/i-was-reported-for-gender-misconduct-for-calling-myself-handsome-in-class-2611

[Ed Anger]

I will stick with my policy of hating everybody and not talking to people.

[Solmyr]

Yeah, it really is not like you are going to be labeled a monster for failing to remember hundreds of pronouns. That argument exists only in the minds of people who oppose the use of preferred pronouns. Most people are, in fact, very understanding even if you don't get it right, as long as you are willing to respect them in turn and learn.

This just isn't true. Failure to conform and accommodate is being punished severely.

Here's a student who was sent to "re-education" for calling himself "handsome" (the horror!): http://thetab.com/us/columbia/2016/10/01/i-was-reported-for-gender-misconduct-for-calling-myself-handsome-in-class-2611

I am somewhat skeptical of a hearsay piece published in a student tabloid. Regardless, this situation would be a fringe case, not a common problem.

[Hamilcar]

I will stick with my policy of hating everybody and not talking to people.

Live footage of Ed Anger: