Whither political leanings?

[Hamilcar]

I used to think of myself as a liberal (in the European sense) with a soft heart for social democracy. But lately, I have felt more and more alienated by the new left: race and gender-based identity politics are deeply off-putting to me, and so are the left's blind spots with regards to Islamism. At the same time, the right has not offered a coherent counter to what I see as major challenges, and instead is engaging in a funhouse mirror version of the left's identity politics. The alt-right and Trump are intellectually bankrupt and just recycle their old prejudices with a thin veneer of the kind of postmodern "power structure" terminology the left loves to use.

What's going on? Am I just getting old and crotchety, or has the tone of our public discourse really deteriorated over the last decade? Are the peddlers of oppression narratives firmly in charge? Where will all this lead? Elders of Languish, is this just a normal stage as you become older?

[The Brain]

Soft heart for social democracy? Try soft head.

In Sweden all parties are collectivist nutjobs so I don't find any of them very attractive. Basing policy on stuff that actually works and not treating adults like toddlers would be great, but it won't happen in Sweden in my lifetime.

[Jacob]

I reckon you spent a bunch of time on reddit and the chans and had the discourse there affect your perception of the world.

[mongers]

I used to think of myself as a liberal (in the European sense) with a soft heart for social democracy. But lately, I have felt more and more alienated by the new left: race and gender-based identity politics are deeply off-putting to me, and so are the left's blind spots with regards to Islamism. At the same time, the right has not offered a coherent counter to what I see as major challenges, and instead is engaging in a funhouse mirror version of the left's identity politics. The alt-right and Trump are intellectually bankrupt and just recycle their old prejudices with a thin veneer of the kind of postmodern "power structure" terminology the left loves to use.

What's going on? Am I just getting old and crotchety, or has the tone of our public discourse really deteriorated over the last decade? Are the peddlers of oppression narratives firmly in charge? Where will all this lead? Elders of Languish, is this just a normal stage as you become older?

You should formulate your political views into a coherent ideology, publish them as a manifesto, campaign in your country's elections and over time gradually build up an unassailable electoral mandate. 

Then screw around with an intern, loose all moral authority, be forced to resign and see out your retirement drinking from the bitter cup. 

[Sheilbh]

Yep. I think a lot of this is generally pretty niche stuff. It may, in twenty years when these guys are in positions of influence in terms of media and politics, become a real issue. At the minute on both sides these are groupuscules, especially the "alt-right".

Having said that I do think we're at an interesting moment politically. My view is that most of this stems from this:

Obviously the really sad bit is the very poor who remain locked out of growth and we should be cheering the growth incomes in emerging economies. But low-low bit who are the middle and working class of developed economies is a big problem and, because developed economies are democracies and vote, a big challenge to current politics. As a leftie I, unsurprisingly, think that we need huge redistribution in the West to keep things going and lift that "elephant's trunk" up.

Alternately, as I've said elsewhere, I think we could be at a period not unlike the seventies: an economic problem that seems insurmountable, student radicals getting involved in radical fringe politics, terrorism from radicalised young men across Europe, a collapse of trust in the establishment and a fraying political consensus (then social democracy, now liberalism). If that's the case there'll be a Thatcher and Reagan of the left or the right eventually, hopefully somewhere to devise an alternative - probably take it too far and get us back here in about 30 years time

[Grinning_Colossus]

If you're feeling alienated, you're free to subscribe to my nutty theory of political economy:

Globalization has turned the entire world into a single market, which applies to labor as well. Both push and pull factors (political instability + the effects of 1st world agricultural subsidies on the viability of local farming and the opportunities available in the cities/the West, respectively) are causing populations across the world to abandon their traditional lifestyles and move to places where more viable employment is available: urban areas in their home countries or Europe. This mirrors the process by which European peasants were pushed off of their land so that they could become an urban proletariat, keeping factory wages low.

Identity politics and the alt-right (which is really just white identity politics) represent a divide-and-rule tactic by the ruling elite to keep whites and minorities/immigrants from uniting and pushing for redistribution from the top or attacking the foundations of the world labor market. The elites get cheap services from the new expanded labor market, but their jobs are protected from wage suppression by the amount of education that they theoretically require. Immigrants benefit somewhat from the system as well, since their standard of living in the West, while not great, is better than what they had before, and they're more protected from conflict and can send remittances to their families. The old indigenous middle class is squeezed in the middle, but is falling into the trap of reacting by adopting grotesque and exclusionary politics.

The fact that the debate on immigration is limited to yes/no, in or out--and that the alternative solution of using increased development aid to ensure that people in the 3rd world have enough to live happily where they are and don't feel the need to leave, which would, in systems with progressive taxation, require more of a contribution by the elites--is rather telling.

[You could make the case that Islamism is also a reaction to the disruption of traditional lifestyles caused by the world market/capitalism, but I think it's a bit of a stretch.]

[Monoriu]

I think people are unhappy because they can no longer get a reasonable return from what they consider a reasonable effort.  Most people realise that they can't be investment bankers or medical doctors.  What they want is something less but still a reasonable status.  Factory workers, truck drivers, bank tellers, etc.  That used to be possible in the previous generations, but globalisation and automation have moved the effort and reward curve away from what people want.  The reality is that the top gets most of the rewards.  The difference between the middle and the bottom becomes increasingly indistinguishable. 

People want change.  I don't think they agree on what the end game is or what the path should be.  But they agree that they don't like the status quo. 

[Valmy]

As a leftie I, unsurprisingly, think that we need huge redistribution in the West to keep things going and lift that "elephant's trunk" up.

I always thought that redistribution was the key, in the first world anyway, to making this globalization neo-liberal thing work. But now I am not so sure. Even in places with well funded and generous welfare states aren't exactly happy. Pity because for the most part everything is going great. Emissions are going down everywhere but India. The world, despite the clusterfuck in the ME, has never been more peaceful or stable. Conservative towns in Texas are entirely powered by green energy. I think the future is bright.

Yet people seem to be getting so pissy. Maybe you are right and we just need to dial it back a bit.

[Valmy]

People want change.  I don't think they agree on what the end game is or what the path should be.  But they agree that they don't like the status quo. 

I disagree. Everything in our lives is radically changing at a rapid pace. I think people want to return to the old days.

[Ed Anger]

I remain to the right of Adolf Hitler.

[Valmy]

Identity politics and the alt-right (which is really just white identity politics) represent a divide-and-rule tactic by the ruling elite to keep whites and minorities/immigrants from uniting and pushing for redistribution from the top or attacking the foundations of the world labor market.

Hah. No way. The Alt-right is a creature of the internet. The elites are reacting to it, not causing it. And they seem to be taking a beating so...

The elites get cheap services from the new expanded labor market

The elites would prefer everybody had shitloads of money, was happy, and were hailing their wise overlords. So I don't think so. It is not like they couldn't afford services in the past.

[Sheilbh]

I always thought that redistribution was the key, in the first world anyway, to making this globalization neo-liberal thing work. But now I am not so sure. Even in places with well funded and generous welfare states aren't exactly happy. Pity because for the most part everything is going great.

Yeah but I think we've moved beyond the stage of a universal welfare state. That's why I think universal basic income may be a big part of the way forward, or maybe if someone could work out a policy for it, Ed Miliband's predistribution. The world as a whole is benefiting from globalisation, the elites of the West and the rest are benefiting - the group that is benefiting the least is the middle and working class in the developed world. There's enough of them in our democratic states to throw the whole thing away. So I think to keep the show going we need far more redistribution to that group which is huge - not means-tested or welfare measures but actually moving income.

Yet people seem to be getting so pissy. Maybe you are right and we just need to dial it back a bit.

I don't want that to happen. I think it might be inevitable - if my whole seventies thing is accurate. I'd hope that what I say above would be sufficient to keep the liberal model rolling but I don't know.

[Jacob]

... more seriously though...

I think the bottom line is that the political consensuses have gotten stale. The lessons of WWII have receded far enough that nationalism shading into bigotry is less beyond the pale than it used to be. The Soviet Union's collapse broke down the Cold War consensus (and another notable example of the ills of Totalitarianism). And the acceleration of free trade, the global marketplace, and entrepreneurial "disruption" in all sorts of areas has slowly been eating away at the social democratic consensus.

There's a bit of a malaise going around and the only big ideas being offered are re-heated nationalism, radical religion, and valorizing the entrepreneur-as-hero which isn't much to choose from IMO. Much as I'm aligned to some sort of liberal cosmopolitanism it often boils down to "let's just more or less muddle along" which frequently falls to be compelling.

So yeah... it's a bit of a mess. Gives me a bit of a before the storm vibe, to be honest.

[Valmy]

So yeah... it's a bit of a mess. Gives me a bit of a before the storm vibe, to be honest.

It is a bit of a paradox isn't it? I hope you are wrong.

I think the weird thing is we are both boldly stepping forward all over the place, yet seemingly still in a bit of a muddle. The modern world is a complex beast.

[Sheilbh]

So yeah... it's a bit of a mess. Gives me a bit of a before the storm vibe, to be honest.

Yeah. As I say it reminds me of what I've read of the 70s. I think it's potentially a similar breakdown of consensus, 'the old is dead the new cannot yet be born' sort of moment.

What's really difficult is to guess is what comes next?