You, too, can work 130 hours a week if you plan when to take a shit

Started by Hamilcar, August 06, 2016, 12:58:18 PM

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Josquius

That's not hard work. That's long work. Totally different thing.
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grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on August 07, 2016, 12:30:15 PM
That's not hard work. That's long work. Totally different thing.

True.  She's only worth $500 million and is already 41 years old.  She's never made more than even $70 million in a single year.  She'll never match your accomplishments no matter how many hours she works, because she doesn't work hard like you, she got stuck working long. 

In fact, it's pathetic.  Assume that she's worked 20 years, 50 weeks a year, 130 hours per week.  That works out to a bit less than $4,000 per hour (even assuming she spent nothing in those 20 years).  I bet you made double that per hour over your career with your hard but not long work.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on August 07, 2016, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 07, 2016, 12:30:15 PM
That's not hard work. That's long work. Totally different thing.

True.  She's only worth $500 million and is already 41 years old.  She's never made more than even $70 million in a single year.  She'll never match your accomplishments no matter how many hours she works, because she doesn't work hard like you, she got stuck working long. 

In fact, it's pathetic.  Assume that she's worked 20 years, 50 weeks a year, 130 hours per week.  That works out to a bit less than $4,000 per hour (even assuming she spent nothing in those 20 years).  I bet you made double that per hour over your career with your hard but not long work.
:bleeding:
No matter what she says (it is not unknown for even the most intelligent of people to have some dumb beliefs) the mere fact of working 130 hour weeks is not what get her where she is.
In Japan this idea that working long hours is automatically good is endemic, I saw it first hand. Its just wrong.
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The Brain

As Tyr and grumbler point out the special thing about people who get rich by working is their efficiency while they work.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: grumbler on August 07, 2016, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 07, 2016, 12:30:15 PM
That's not hard work. That's long work. Totally different thing.

True.  She's only worth $500 million and is already 41 years old.  She's never made more than even $70 million in a single year.  She'll never match your accomplishments no matter how many hours she works, because she doesn't work hard like you, she got stuck working long. 

In fact, it's pathetic.  Assume that she's worked 20 years, 50 weeks a year, 130 hours per week.  That works out to a bit less than $4,000 per hour (even assuming she spent nothing in those 20 years).  I bet you made double that per hour over your career with your hard but not long work.

A demonstration of how the US executive compensation system is broken, while interesting for its own reasons, isn't directly relevant to the question of the advisability of the 130 hour work week.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Martinus

Quote from: alfred russel on August 06, 2016, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2016, 01:01:52 PM
That is amazing. My productivity would take a nosedive after 60 hours. Amazing one can not only work that much but still be useful doing it. And I guess not throw yourself out the office window at some point.

Some people truly love their work; I think that is the difference. Some people are consumed by video games and play them constantly; for some people that same dynamic is at play with work.

This. This isn't really about how much money she made (although the success is her proof, given how much she made) but what she personally got out of it. It is silly to criticise her based on her choices - only she can say whether it was worth it - for her. Different people have different levels of work satisfaction and different priorities. What matters, ultimately, is whether she felt this was meaningful or not - and whether she will feel this way in 10 or 20 years.

Martinus

Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
As Tyr and grumbler point out the special thing about people who get rich by working is their efficiency while they work.

Being rich is just one side effect. Another person could spend 130 hours a week to develop a cure for cancer, or work for a non-profit charity. Ultimately, what matters is whether the person in question thinks it is a productive use of their time. You can't take your riches to your grave.

The Brain

Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
As Tyr and grumbler point out the special thing about people who get rich by working is their efficiency while they work.

Being rich is just one side effect. Another person could spend 130 hours a week to develop a cure for cancer, or work for a non-profit charity. Ultimately, what matters is whether the person in question thinks it is a productive use of their time. You can't take your riches to your grave.

wut
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Liep

Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
As Tyr and grumbler point out the special thing about people who get rich by working is their efficiency while they work.

Being rich is just one side effect. Another person could spend 130 hours a week to develop a cure for cancer, or work for a non-profit charity. Ultimately, what matters is whether the person in question thinks it is a productive use of their time. You can't take your riches to your grave.

wut

He's saying no one remember Crassus but everybody remembers the guy who cured polio.
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

garbon

Didn't many of the pharoahs take riches to their graves? (as just one example of a culture with such a practice)
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Tonitrus

One can take almost anything to the grave.  It's beyond that that things get sketchy.

Sheilbh

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 06, 2016, 07:06:18 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 06, 2016, 01:11:57 PM
Americans :bleeding: :weep:

Saw this commercial this afternoon, I thought of you--

https://youtu.be/3H_PCKxTjMU
:lol: Basically.

But with America and China we're heading to 60 hour work weeks and having to pretend to enjoy it :bleeding:

Hour long lunches and six weeks of holidays should be enforced on all. Aggressively <_<
Let's bomb Russia!

grumbler

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 07, 2016, 02:52:42 PM
A demonstration of how the US executive compensation system is broken, while interesting for its own reasons, isn't directly relevant to the question of the advisability of the 130 hour work week.

As AR noted, the 130 hours is almost certainly an exaggeration, except in exceptional circumstances, but there are lots of people who work long hours effectively and get paid a shitload of money for it.  Tyr's claim that Marissa Mayer worked long but did not work hard is not borne out by the evidence.  Even if she has made four times as much as she should have because of "how the US executive compensation system is broken," she still made something like $1,000 an hour over her career.  She probably had to produce to get that much.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 07, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
But with America and China we're heading to 60 hour work weeks and having to pretend to enjoy it :bleeding:

Bummer, dude.  You guys really think you are so inefficient you will need to work 50% more hours than Americans?  I suppose the "having to pretend to enjoy it" part just comes with the stiff upper lip. :console:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Martinus

Quote from: Liep on August 07, 2016, 04:36:36 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
As Tyr and grumbler point out the special thing about people who get rich by working is their efficiency while they work.

Being rich is just one side effect. Another person could spend 130 hours a week to develop a cure for cancer, or work for a non-profit charity. Ultimately, what matters is whether the person in question thinks it is a productive use of their time. You can't take your riches to your grave.

wut

He's saying no one remember Crassus but everybody remembers the guy who cured polio.

Not really. Again, would you care if you are remembered once you are dead? I don't think so.

My point is that, if you work 130 hours a week, your motivation better be something more than just money - and as far as I can tell from reading biographies and accounts of many successful and rich people, it very often is something more than just money.