Saudi Arabia to behead boy for political protest

[Martinus]

I don't think Hillary should adopt Trump's positions on Islamism any more than she should adopt Bernie's positions on, well, almost anything. But it serves to push her from the default positions of the Democratic establishment, which are also dysfunctional.

[Monoriu]

I read a bit about travelling to Saudi Arabia and there is something quite surprising to me. 

Entry will be refused to citizens of Israel and to those who show stamps and/or visas from Israel.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Saudi_Arabia

So if I want to visit both Isreal and Saudi Arabia, I must do Saudi Arabia first.  Or I need two passports, the Canadian one for Israel and the UK one for Saudi Arabia etc. 

[The Brain]

When it comes to foreign policy the most harmful thing to come out of the GOP in a long time is the "we may or may not defend NATO allies" thing, IMHO.

[Admiral Yi]

I read a bit about travelling to Saudi Arabia and there is something quite surprising to me. 

Entry will be refused to citizens of Israel and to those who show stamps and/or visas from Israel.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Saudi_Arabia

So if I want to visit both Isreal and Saudi Arabia, I must do Saudi Arabia first.  Or I need two passports, the Canadian one for Israel and the UK one for Saudi Arabia etc.

I have heard that Israel is very good about issuing a disposable entry permit, not stamping the passport, for exactly this reason.

[Sheilbh]

I read a bit about travelling to Saudi Arabia and there is something quite surprising to me. 

Entry will be refused to citizens of Israel and to those who show stamps and/or visas from Israel.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Saudi_Arabia

So if I want to visit both Isreal and Saudi Arabia, I must do Saudi Arabia first.  Or I need two passports, the Canadian one for Israel and the UK one for Saudi Arabia etc.

I have heard that Israel is very good about issuing a disposable entry permit, not stamping the passport, for exactly this reason.

Less good lately for the very understandable reason that they really shouldn't have to do it.

It used to even worse though Mono. My dad was in the merchant navy for years and in the 70s especially before you docked in any Arab port you had to do a total search of the ship and throw out any Israeli products. In the case that customs inspected your ship even if it just had a jaffa orange you wouldn't be allowed to dock. I believe nowadays most countries are more pragmatic about it.

[grumbler]

I have heard that Israel is very good about issuing a disposable entry permit, not stamping the passport, for exactly this reason.

When I went to the Soviet Union in the 1980s, they did this as well.

[CountDeMoney]

I have heard that Israel is very good about issuing a disposable entry permit, not stamping the passport, for exactly this reason.

That, and it was also the sort of thing that got your ass separated from the rest of the hostages and put in the "Best if Killed By: Now" pile.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I don't see a good move for the West in regard to Saudi Arabia. I think we should continue business as usual with them, if we have learned nothing from the Arab Spring it should be that the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't. I can't see any real outcome where Saudi Arabia doesn't become worse in every way in response to international pressure. If we destabilized the al-Saud regime evidence is any popular government the Saudi citizenry produced would be far more monstrous, and if we put the al-Saud family were to survive they'd probably become more authoritarian and worse in response to what would likely be a more tenuous hold on power (not dissimilar to Assad getting far worse in Syria than he was before the uprisings.)

[celedhring]

I have heard that Israel is very good about issuing a disposable entry permit, not stamping the passport, for exactly this reason.

When I went to the Soviet Union in the 1980s, they did this as well.

My uncle-in-law works in the merchant navy and told me Cuba used to do this in the 80s too (they might still do but he's not been there since).

[Caliga]

Cuba was willing to do it for Americans visiting in violation of the travel ban as recently as like 3 or 4 years ago.  Friends of mine from Kentucky went to Cuba on vacation using the 'go through Mexico first' trick.

[alfred russel]

Israel did it for me a couple years ago. I was sort of freaked out about getting an Israeli stamp since so many countries don't like it (I knew you could avoid getting it stamped, but was worried they would do so anyway), but when I handed over my passport and quickly started asking him not to stamp, he said, "don't worry at all, we don't stamp" and just inserted a transit card into the passport. I got the impression he would have done so even if I didn't ask.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't see a good move for the West in regard to Saudi Arabia. I think we should continue business as usual with them, if we have learned nothing from the Arab Spring it should be that the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't. I can't see any real outcome where Saudi Arabia doesn't become worse in every way in response to international pressure. If we destabilized the al-Saud regime evidence is any popular government the Saudi citizenry produced would be far more monstrous, and if we put the al-Saud family were to survive they'd probably become more authoritarian and worse in response to what would likely be a more tenuous hold on power (not dissimilar to Assad getting far worse in Syria than he was before the uprisings.)

I think the best move on Saudi Arabia would be to tell them that the American public cares about things like beating women for driving, and unless they find a way to reform themselves and transition to a more modern world view, continued American support can not be guaranteed.

The exact same thing should be said to Israel, about policy on the West Bank.

[Monoriu]

I don't see a good move for the West in regard to Saudi Arabia. I think we should continue business as usual with them, if we have learned nothing from the Arab Spring it should be that the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't. I can't see any real outcome where Saudi Arabia doesn't become worse in every way in response to international pressure. If we destabilized the al-Saud regime evidence is any popular government the Saudi citizenry produced would be far more monstrous, and if we put the al-Saud family were to survive they'd probably become more authoritarian and worse in response to what would likely be a more tenuous hold on power (not dissimilar to Assad getting far worse in Syria than he was before the uprisings.)

I think the best move on Saudi Arabia would be to tell them that the American public cares about things like beating women for driving, and unless they find a way to reform themselves and transition to a more modern world view, continued American support can not be guaranteed.

The exact same thing should be said to Israel, about policy on the West Bank.

Somehow I have the feeling that the US government already had these conversations with the respective parties, and they didn't produce the desired changes. 

[Admiral Yi]

Somehow I have the feeling that the US government already had these conversations with the respective parties, and they didn't produce the desired changes.

I would argue that in fact Saudi Arabia has already engaged in noticeable reforms and changes in policy.

[viper37]

I don't see a good move for the West in regard to Saudi Arabia. I think we should continue business as usual with them, if we have learned nothing from the Arab Spring it should be that the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't. I can't see any real outcome where Saudi Arabia doesn't become worse in every way in response to international pressure. If we destabilized the al-Saud regime evidence is any popular government the Saudi citizenry produced would be far more monstrous, and if we put the al-Saud family were to survive they'd probably become more authoritarian and worse in response to what would likely be a more tenuous hold on power (not dissimilar to Assad getting far worse in Syria than he was before the uprisings.)

I think the best move on Saudi Arabia would be to tell them that the American public cares about things like beating women for driving, and unless they find a way to reform themselves and transition to a more modern world view, continued American support can not be guaranteed.

The exact same thing should be said to Israel, about policy on the West Bank.

Then Saudi Arabia will do exactly the same as Israel: turn toward another ally.

It's not like China and Russia don't want Saudi oil.

It's a little too late for that, especially for Israel.  That country will keep expanding until there is no more Palestine but Gaza, and then, they'll make their lives so miserable that they'll leave by themselves.  It would have been effective in the early 2000s, when there were no alternatives for Israel.