The real message of Brexit (IMO)

[The Brain]

Makes sense to me to have a referendum on huge fundamental issues like being in the EU or not. I would have thought it highly inappropraite if Sweden hadn't had a referendum before we joined the EU.

As for complexity, this Brexit referendum had a very simple question, very easy to understand. The issue was perfect for a yes/no answer. The short term consequences (business as usual with a Remain, huge hit to the economy and huge uncertainties with a Leave) were well known, and whatever Bregret there is seems to be tied to the short term consequences.

[fromtia]

As for complexity, this Brexit referendum had a very simple question, very easy to understand. The issue was perfect for a yes/no answer. The short term consequences (business as usual with a Remain, huge hit to the economy and huge uncertainties with a Leave) were well known, and whatever Bregret there is seems to be tied to the short term consequences.

The question was simple, but the issue complex. As far as I can tell one of the campaign issues that swung the vote to leave was immigration, along with some other vague appeals to emotion and mythology. Taking back control, Brexiteers suddenly interested in spending on the NHS and so on, all things that they have speedily and determinedly reversed on in the last 72 hours. If you voted Leave to end immigration, you are likely to be quite disappointed. The question wasn't "end immigration?" it was "leave the european union?".

I was in favor of remain, but for some fairly vague ideas of my own to do with federalism and fanciful notions of peace and prosperity.

[The Brain]

As for complexity, this Brexit referendum had a very simple question, very easy to understand. The issue was perfect for a yes/no answer. The short term consequences (business as usual with a Remain, huge hit to the economy and huge uncertainties with a Leave) were well known, and whatever Bregret there is seems to be tied to the short term consequences.

The question was simple, but the issue complex. As far as I can tell one of the campaign issues that swung the vote to leave was immigration, along with some other vague appeals to emotion and mythology. Taking back control, Brexiteers suddenly interested in spending on the NHS and so on, all things that they have speedily and determinedly reversed on in the last 72 hours. If you voted Leave to end immigration, you are likely to be quite disappointed. The question wasn't "end immigration?" it was "leave the european union?".

I was in favor of remain, but for some fairly vague ideas of my own to do with federalism and fanciful notions of peace and prosperity.

And the question was clearly stated on the ballot. Surely the Remain campaign had months to supply good arguments for staying in the EU.

[The Minsky Moment]

And the question was clearly stated on the ballot. Surely the Remain campaign had months to supply good arguments for staying in the EU.

That was the mistake they made.  They tried to come up with good arguments instead of good slogans.  "Take control"  blah. blah.

[LaCroix]

I've been somewhat impressed with north dakota's referenda results the past few years. but these were things like changing the constitution to ban abortion, whether to remove property taxes, allow walmart to have a pharmacy, allow corporate farming, etc. small issues issues for a backwater state

on a national level, the mass public shouldn't decide major political issues. they lack the experience and skill to decide correctly

[The Brain]

And the question was clearly stated on the ballot. Surely the Remain campaign had months to supply good arguments for staying in the EU.

That was the mistake they made.  They tried to come up with good arguments instead of good slogans.  "Take control"  blah. blah.

I didn't follow the campaigns but I can certainly believe that the Remain campaign was crappy, judging by the magnitude of Bregret.

[PJL]

If people are complaining about the general public's ability to decide referendums then why are they okay with them deciding elections?

[fromtia]

And the question was clearly stated on the ballot. Surely the Remain campaign had months to supply good arguments for staying in the EU.

Well that's the point of the discussion I think. Simple question, one would assume we lay out all the facts, examine them and make a decision. I don't think that's what just happened.

Remains campaign was heavy on good arguments and (imo obvs) good arguments, but those were trivial resources compared to the Leave campaigns "Look Immigrants!" and spirited story telling.

[fromtia]

If people are complaining about the general public's ability to decide referendums then why are they okay with them deciding elections?

Because they elect professional representatives. Or semi professional ones. Or amateurs. Oh, you know.

[mongers]

And the question was clearly stated on the ballot. Surely the Remain campaign had months to supply good arguments for staying in the EU.

Well that's the point of the discussion I think. Simple question, one would assume we lay out all the facts, examine them and make a decision. I don't think that's what just happened.

Remains campaign was heavy on good arguments and (imo obvs) good arguments, but those were trivial resources compared to the Leave campaigns "Look Immigrants!" and spirited story telling.

Indeed.

Though Cameron and Osbourne had their fair share of stupidity, like the WW3 is a possibility etc. If they'd not relied on 'project fear' maybe they'd have not gotten so many peoples backs up.

Hell some of the Remain camp could have tried outlining some of the good things the EU is responsible for? :gasp:

[11B4V]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/from-brexit-to-texit-renewed-calls-for-texas-secession-after-eu-vote/ar-AAhBJsh?ocid=ansmsnnews11

[fromtia]

Indeed.

Though Cameron and Osbourne had their fair share of stupidity, like the WW3 is a possibility etc. If they'd not relied on 'project fear' maybe they'd have not gotten so many peoples backs up.

Hell some of the Remain camp could have tried outlining some of the good things the EU is responsible for? :gasp:

Agree. Remains ineptitude is cross party mind you. Labours performance on this topic was dismal and the rift between Labour and their traditional supporters on immigration has been a real problem here. I don't recall anyone making a good case for the EU to working people, country folk and duffers. Left them in the capable hands of the parade of horribles who will not now produce what they think they voted for.

[CountDeMoney]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/from-brexit-to-texit-renewed-calls-for-texas-secession-after-eu-vote/ar-AAhBJsh?ocid=ansmsnnews11

Thing is, I don't think the country would have a problem with that.

[11B4V]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/from-brexit-to-texit-renewed-calls-for-texas-secession-after-eu-vote/ar-AAhBJsh?ocid=ansmsnnews11

Thing is, I don't think the country would have a problem with that.

We heeled them once, we'll do it again. The South will not rise again.

[Habbaku]

I think you need to start a third Brexit thread of your own to really be effectual.

Hey, at least this one doesn't have a Timmay-like error in the thread title.