Jesus' Wife?

[Malthus]

Rabbis were not really a thing back then though. I mean not as an institution. He was a member, and eventual leader, of a weird millennialist cult so we cannot assume he had some kind of conventional life. Also it seems likely he was the son of an unmarried mother, with several half-brothers and sisters, and came from a class of landless laborers.

The Pharisees were basically the sect that had 'rabbis'. They may not have yet been called "rabbis", but the core notions were the same: interpretation of the laws by 'teachers' or 'sages', who interpret an 'oral Torah' to illuminate/interpret the 'written Torah'.

They contrasted with the ' Sadducees' who rejected an 'oral Torah', and concentrated on the written text alone. Modern Judaism descends from the Pharisees in a pretty direct line.

There is no reason to suspect that a core belief of Judaism - than people are supposed to get married - was any different then. Christianity inherited its anti-sexual animus from Gnostic notions that were around at the time, among Greeks more than among Jews (the notion that the spirit is good and the body is bad): there was a sect of Jews who may have believed such things - the Essenes - but there is no evidence Jesus was an Essene: he certainly did not act like one (the Essenes appeared to be a sort of communist religious community living apart from others).

It is more likely Jesus was an offshoot of the Pharisees. The Pharisees were the "popular" party (as opposed to the Sadducees, who were a priestly elite). The Pharisees believed in following the teachings of individual 'sages' or 'teachers', which is how Jesus presented himself. Many of Jesus' teachings echo those of the Pharisees.  The disparaging references in the Gospels to Pharisees as rules-mongers appears to be in the context of arguing down rivals within the same community.

[Valmy]

Hey I am not saying he didn't have a wife. Only that it is possible he had bottom rung social status, the possibility that his parents do not seem to have been married, and his possible association with a weird cult mean that we cannot assume he did what was expected from a respectable Jew at the time. I don't think he was a sage in the sense he was some kind of expert on the law. But could have been. Who knows?

[Malthus]

Hey I am not saying he didn't have a wife. Only that it is possible he had bottom rung social status, the possibility that his parents do not seem to have been married, and his possible association with a weird cult mean that we cannot assume he did what was expected from a respectable Jew at the time. I don't think he was a sage in the sense he was some kind of expert on the law. But could have been. Who knows?

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

[HVC]

Happy Jesus' wife, happy eternal life.

[Malthus]

Hey I am not saying he didn't have a wife. Only that it is possible he had bottom rung social status, the possibility that his parents do not seem to have been married, and his possible association with a weird cult mean that we cannot assume he did what was expected from a respectable Jew at the time. I don't think he was a sage in the sense he was some kind of expert on the law. But could have been. Who knows?

He seems to have attracted a group of followers, some of them female, who were willing to follow him despite social convention. Why not marry one, if there was no religious reason not to? Other weird cult leaders have had no problem with that ... the difficulty for them is to stop at marrying one. 

[lustindarkness]

"University of Eastern Pee-Pee Land"



So, I take it that the author believes it was a forgery.

Seems the conclusion, yes.

It's an interesting cast of characters and a nice piece of investigation.

Yes, and well written. The more he investigated the more real life gave him some good Hollywood worthy twists and turns too. Crazy.

[Valmy]

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Sometimes he is an expert on the law. Other times he is the defier of the law. Depends on what the point the Gospels were trying to make.

He seems to have attracted a group of followers, some of them female, who were willing to follow him despite social convention. Why not marry one, if there was no religious reason not to? Other weird cult leaders have had no problem with that ... the difficulty for them is to stop at marrying one. 

I was addressing the convention that Rabbis were expected to marry. I was merely saying he was not a typical guy so those kinds of expectations may not have applied. Indeed he might have had mass orgies for all I know.

[Malthus]

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Sometimes he is an expert on the law. Other times he is the defier of the law. Depends on what the point the Gospels were trying to make.

He seems to have attracted a group of followers, some of them female, who were willing to follow him despite social convention. Why not marry one, if there was no religious reason not to? Other weird cult leaders have had no problem with that ... the difficulty for them is to stop at marrying one. 

I was addressing the convention that Rabbis were expected to marry. I was merely saying he was not a typical guy so those kinds of expectations may not have applied. Indeed he might have had mass orgies for all I know.

The convention isn't just for Rabbis, but for all adult Jews. Rabbis were simply held to that convention (as to all others) more stringently, because they are supposed to set an example. 

Celibacy in Judaism is, basically, considered really weird for adults. Not a desirable state of affairs at all.  Paul, of course, held that it was - and in doing so, he went against all Jewish precedent.

[Valmy]

Celibacy in Judaism is, basically, considered really weird for adults. Not a desirable state of affairs at all.  Paul, of course, held that it was - and in doing so, he went against all Jewish precedent.

Well yeah God ordered you people to be fruitful and multiply. Yet I see less than 10 children Malthus.

[Jacob]

Celibacy in Judaism is, basically, considered really weird for adults. Not a desirable state of affairs at all.  Paul, of course, held that it was - and in doing so, he went against all Jewish precedent.

Well yeah God ordered you people to be fruitful and multiply. Yet I see less than 10 children Malthus.

Was god specific about the factor of multiplication?

[Berkut]

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Sometimes he is an expert on the law. Other times he is the defier of the law. Depends on what the point the Gospels were trying to make.

You say that like the characteristics of Jesus were just something made up by the writers to serve some particular purpose. What a silly notion!

[Valmy]

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Sometimes he is an expert on the law. Other times he is the defier of the law. Depends on what the point the Gospels were trying to make.

You say that like the characteristics of Jesus were just something made up by the writers to serve some particular purpose. What a silly notion!

Yeah. That was how stories were told back then. Look at how the Roman Emperors were described by their historians. They are usually given characteristics to communicate their opinion on the Emperor rather than something that person might have actually had.

So when you are studying a particular historical (or possibly historical) person you have to keep that in mind.

I don't think it was necessarily dishonest or anything it was just the literary style at the time.

[Valmy]

Celibacy in Judaism is, basically, considered really weird for adults. Not a desirable state of affairs at all.  Paul, of course, held that it was - and in doing so, he went against all Jewish precedent.

Well yeah God ordered you people to be fruitful and multiply. Yet I see less than 10 children Malthus.

Was god specific about the factor of multiplication?

No, he was vague. So the traditional interpretation is just to multiply as much as possible just to be safe.

[Razgovory]

The Gospels claim he was, and go out of their way to show him confounding the "experts in the law" of the day with his learning. See: Luke 10:25, and the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Sometimes he is an expert on the law. Other times he is the defier of the law. Depends on what the point the Gospels were trying to make.

You say that like the characteristics of Jesus were just something made up by the writers to serve some particular purpose. What a silly notion!

There are faster ways to kill yourself then to create fictional character that offends local authorities so they saw you in half, or behead you.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Of course he's married. His wife helps him run the taco truck.