Archaeologists do it in holes: Tales from the stratigraphy

Started by Maladict, May 27, 2016, 02:34:49 AM

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Legbiter

Great interview with David Reich on the archeogenetic revolution. All this stuff was science fiction 10 years ago.

Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

grumbler

Quote from: Legbiter on September 02, 2024, 02:29:23 PMGreat interview with David Reich on the archeogenetic revolution. All this stuff was science fiction 10 years ago.


 :thumbsup:

This changes almost everything I thought I knew about the relationship between archaic and modern humans.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!


Jacob

Yeah, I'm not normally a podcast watcher - especially long ones - but this was super interesting. Thanks for sharing :cheers:

Crazy_Ivan80

Something to listen to tomorrow, the intro was intriguing

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Josquius on August 19, 2024, 02:56:29 PMJudaism and it's offshoots rising to such prominence was indeed bizare. Seems to be very much a fluke of history.

But even there I'm sure working backwards a logical story could be pieced together - Judaism really taking religion in the modern sense of the word seriously and not playing nice with others would naturally lead to it rising above more flexible indigenous beliefs.


It was the axial age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

HVC

Akhenaten Doesn't get enough love as a monotheistic pioneer
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Josquius

The thread being bumped up reminds me.
The Orkney Empire may not have been a thing afterall :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g55ly0e6o
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Tamas


Sheilbh

Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: HVC on September 09, 2024, 01:07:24 AMAkhenaten Doesn't get enough love as a monotheistic pioneer

Because there isn't any clear influence on later developments.  His cult was suppressed and mostly forgotten.

I don't think the Judaism story is that complicated.  The Judean elite spent decades in exile in the most sophisticated and polyglot city in the Western Hemisphere and were exposed to all the latest ideas. They then allied themselves with Persian conquerors whose religion was monotheistic. The narrative in Ezra-Nehemiah preserves the account that when the exiles returned, the common "people of the land" didn't recognize the religion that was being "restored." The Bible contends this is because the people backslid without priestly guidance or because pagans had been placed on the land.  But a simpler explanation is that the "people of the land" were keeping the traditional faith and the Persianized exiles (Nehemiah was a high Persian official) were the innovators.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson


viper37

I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Razgovory

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 09, 2024, 04:26:49 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 09, 2024, 01:07:24 AMAkhenaten Doesn't get enough love as a monotheistic pioneer

Because there isn't any clear influence on later developments.  His cult was suppressed and mostly forgotten.

I don't think the Judaism story is that complicated.  The Judean elite spent decades in exile in the most sophisticated and polyglot city in the Western Hemisphere and were exposed to all the latest ideas. They then allied themselves with Persian conquerors whose religion was monotheistic. The narrative in Ezra-Nehemiah preserves the account that when the exiles returned, the common "people of the land" didn't recognize the religion that was being "restored." The Bible contends this is because the people backslid without priestly guidance or because pagans had been placed on the land.  But a simpler explanation is that the "people of the land" were keeping the traditional faith and the Persianized exiles (Nehemiah was a high Persian official) were the innovators.
The evidence that Zorastrianism was monotheistic is pretty shaky, they were worshiping Mithra in addition to Ahura Mazda.  The Cainite states all seem to have a national God.  Whether they were monotheistic is uncertain, Judah at least moved in that direction.  The religion certainly changed after the Babylonian Captivity, but again it's difficult to tell how much.

My opinion is that Monotheism was a slow process championed by a priests of Yahweh but monotheism wasn't fully imposed on the people till after the Captivity.  I suspect the story of Moses was either created of came to prominence after the captivity to reflect the returning Jewish elite.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

Quote from: Razgovory on September 11, 2024, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 09, 2024, 04:26:49 PM
Quote from: HVC on September 09, 2024, 01:07:24 AMAkhenaten Doesn't get enough love as a monotheistic pioneer

Because there isn't any clear influence on later developments.  His cult was suppressed and mostly forgotten.

I don't think the Judaism story is that complicated.  The Judean elite spent decades in exile in the most sophisticated and polyglot city in the Western Hemisphere and were exposed to all the latest ideas. They then allied themselves with Persian conquerors whose religion was monotheistic. The narrative in Ezra-Nehemiah preserves the account that when the exiles returned, the common "people of the land" didn't recognize the religion that was being "restored." The Bible contends this is because the people backslid without priestly guidance or because pagans had been placed on the land.  But a simpler explanation is that the "people of the land" were keeping the traditional faith and the Persianized exiles (Nehemiah was a high Persian official) were the innovators.
The evidence that Zorastrianism was monotheistic is pretty shaky, they were worshiping Mithra in addition to Ahura Mazda.  The Cainite states all seem to have a national God.  Whether they were monotheistic is uncertain, Judah at least moved in that direction.  The religion certainly changed after the Babylonian Captivity, but again it's difficult to tell how much.

My opinion is that Monotheism was a slow process championed by a priests of Yahweh but monotheism wasn't fully imposed on the people till after the Captivity.  I suspect the story of Moses was either created of came to prominence after the captivity to reflect the returning Jewish elite.

I am not sure who they is referring to here.  Zoroastrian belief was dominate across a number of peoples and certainly influenced the development of Jewish thought.