Weekend Work Emails Are Now Illegal In France

[CountDeMoney]

Sure. But it's not just the very highly paid who are now expected to have their phone on at all times and be answering emails.

That's the issue is that this started as something for the top who arguably maybe do need to be available at weekends. It spread from there. Similarly I know lots of people who'd breach their employment contracts if they turned their phone off, but it's not generally something you're being told by your boss as Marti says. It's become a cultural thing.

Yeah, a silent expectation that that is part of the job, right up there with how clock watchers are frowned upon.

[11B4V]

Sure. But it's not just the very highly paid who are now expected to have their phone on at all times and be answering emails.

That's the issue is that this started as something for the top who arguably maybe do need to be available at weekends. It spread from there. Similarly I know lots of people who'd breach their employment contracts if they turned their phone off, but it's not generally something you're being told by your boss as Marti says. It's become a cultural thing.

Yeah, a silent expectation that that is part of the job, right up there with how clock watchers are frowned upon.

that that 

[derspiess]

Technology also allows the encroachment of your personal life into work. As the existence of this forum proves.

Exactly.  There's give and take. 

[MadImmortalMan]

I've never used the same email for personal and work. But then again I also don't bring any personal effects into the office either. I want to know I can walk away at any time.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, a silent expectation that that is part of the job, right up there with how clock watchers are frowned upon.

that that 

Not the most elegant prose, but still grammatically correct. 

[Martinus]

I've never used the same email for personal and work. But then again I also don't bring any personal effects into the office either. I want to know I can walk away at any time.

You should be the next US Secretary of State.

[Martinus]

Sure. But it's not just the very highly paid who are now expected to have their phone on at all times and be answering emails.

That's the issue is that this started as something for the top who arguably maybe do need to be available at weekends. It spread from there. Similarly I know lots of people who'd breach their employment contracts if they turned their phone off, but it's not generally something you're being told by your boss as Marti says. It's become a cultural thing.

If we don't stop it'll go the way of liquid lunches, actual lunches, evening plans, holidays and all the rest. Our weekend's will become Pret sandwiches wolfed at the desk.

I disagree. I think in most work places they expect some sort of reasonable availability - say, that you check your email maybe two or three times over the weekend and make a judgement call whether to respond or let it wait until Monday. There are of course special times in every job where you can expect to work over the weekend, but these depend on your job description. If your job is an outlier and expects you to be available more than the average then they better pay you more - or you will just leave and find a better job. Trying to hammer it down with a regulation is going to affect negatively a lot of reasonable arrangements. Not to mention, I don't think the state should be interfering with things like this in the first place.

[Martinus]

Plus, as I said before, a lot of economy, especially those parts of it where email availability is important, is now global. So regulations like this will simply make French companies and employees less competitive.

[Zoupa]

I'd be perfectly fine billing the company for overtime if they expect me to work over 40 hours.

More specifically, over 35 hours, since this is France

[Martinus]

I'd be perfectly fine billing the company for overtime if they expect me to work over 40 hours.

More specifically, over 35 hours, since this is France

Does anyone in France get overtime or only certain jobs? Over here, independent and/or managerial positions do not get overtime. In fact I would be ashamed to work in a job that pays overtime because it implies I work under close supervision.

[MadImmortalMan]

In fact I would be ashamed to work in a job that pays overtime because it implies I work under close supervision.

Yeah that's normal here too. Salary means you've risen above that.

[Maladict]

If I get promoted in October, and I probably will, I'll officially lose paid overtime rights.
I've never used them, but just compensated by taking a day off later as everyone else does.
Still, I should step up the job search.

[Sheilbh]

I swear this was a story before? I have a feeling this is something that gets covered every few years and isn't necessarily that true.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/julesdarmanin/chill-people-france-did-not-ban-work-emails-after-hours

You know lots of people making middling salaries who have to be available 24/7?

I know one person who doesn't have a work phone which they kind of have to check. She very deliberately chose an industry and a role where that sort of thing wouldn't happen. We're all I think about average to upper salaries for degree educated people in London of our age and in various sectors. None of us are old enough to be earning really big money and none of us are in, say, investment banking.

I disagree. I think in most work places they expect some sort of reasonable availability - say, that you check your email maybe two or three times over the weekend and make a judgement call whether to respond or let it wait until Monday. There are of course special times in every job where you can expect to work over the weekend, but these depend on your job description. If your job is an outlier and expects you to be available more than the average then they better pay you more - or you will just leave and find a better job. Trying to hammer it down with a regulation is going to affect negatively a lot of reasonable arrangements. Not to mention, I don't think the state should be interfering with things like this in the first place.

I think it's a slippery slope - as with working through lunch which didn't used to be a cultural norm. It will be checking two or three times and make a judgement call but I think that will shift as the keenoes decide to do it more regularly and be more responsive over the weekend. Then I think that will become the working culture.

I've no issue with people working weekends on occasion because there's a big deadline or something like that, same with working very late. My objection is more the bleeding into your regular, everyday time away from work. I don't see the difference between the state being involved in this and the state enforcing paid leave, or almost any other labour law.

On the competitiveness point I think that could be said about any other labour law, but I don't find it persuasive. We're in developed, rich companies and our competitiveness should be coming from the quality of the work and the sort of added value not just a numbers game. Obviously there's a balance to be struck but I'm not sure that observing weekends as non-work time is that outrageous. Also I think if it's only checking your email two or three times a weekend, it's not going to be that big of a deal in terms of competitiveness. While for a person having to check their phone with that sort of awareness some shit may have landed on their desk that may end their weekend is a bigger deal.

Does anyone in France get overtime or only certain jobs? Over here, independent and/or managerial positions do not get overtime. In fact I would be ashamed to work in a job that pays overtime because it implies I work under close supervision.

Yeah same here. It annoys me it seems like favouring status over material gain, which I'd rather have.

[Martinus]

I think my point is that most workplaces are reasonable and this law is silly. Workaholic life styles tend to correct themselves over time, and state intervention is unwarranted.

[Martinus]

On the competitiveness point I think that could be said about any other labour law, but I don't find it persuasive. We're in developed, rich companies and our competitiveness should be coming from the quality of the work and the sort of added value not just a numbers game.

I work for one of the most successful law firms in the world. Client surveys repeatedly say that responsiveness is a key component of success - because quality is a given. I would be surprised if it was different in most of the other developed, rich companies.