Is violence against civilians sometimes justified?

[Ed Anger]

Well, Grumbler is really defensive on this issue, isn't he?  I wonder what he was doing in the navy.

He set Majorian's fleet afire at Cathago Nova.

[Tonitrus]

Well, Grumbler is really defensive on this issue, isn't he?  I wonder what he was doing in the navy.

He set Majorian's fleet afire at Cathago Nova.

But at least he was targeting the oars, and not the galley slaves.

[Ed Anger]

Fucking Vandals. 

[CountDeMoney]

Grumblah Ben-Hurl

[grumbler]

Grumblah Ben-Hurl

the hurl part was certainly true of my second deployment to the Indian Ocean.  That's when I realized what the handles on the trash cans were really designed for...

[CountDeMoney]

I bet that whole side of the fucking planet smells like feet.

[Ed Anger]

And Diharrea.

[Razgovory]

A little more on topic, it's quite easy to believe that the US army lied to itself, and rather difficult to reconcile statements about not targeting civilian targets and dehousing.  I mean, a house is a civilian structure.  Unless it has been militarized and is a danger to bomber pilots they are civilian targets.  The US did build a Japanese and German housing in Utah and dropped bombs on them see how best to burn them down.  Unless they were testing what not to do, that sure looks like an effort to destroy civilian targets.

[dps]

I'd be surprised to find that the British, who were coordinating their efforts so closely with the Americans, would have had a completely different targeting strategy, since bothwere governed by the Casablanca Directiv, which stated that...

...1. Your Primary object will be the progressive destruction and dislocation of the German military, industrial, and economic system, and the undermining of the morale of the German people to a point where their capacity for armed resistance is fatally weakened.

They weren't specifically trying to kill civilians, per se, they were trying to target civilian morale.  And yes, the general British targeting strategy did differ radically from that of the Americans, not as to aims, but as to methods.  Nighttime area bombing, IMO, was essentially terror bombing.  And frankly, I don't really have a problem with that in the context of the times.

[grumbler]

They weren't specifically trying to kill civilians, per se, they were trying to target civilian morale.  And yes, the general British targeting strategy did differ radically from that of the Americans, not as to aims, but as to methods.  Nighttime area bombing, IMO, was essentially terror bombing.  And frankly, I don't really have a problem with that in the context of the times.

Terror bombing in the sense that they wanted the people to be constantly afraid that their night's rest will be shattered by air raid sirens and they will have to go to the shelters, and come out to find their homes gone, yes.  This is a far cry from "killing civilians for the sake of it," which is, after all, the argument I am opposing.

[Norgy]

And Diharrea.

They have Chipotle there too?

[Razgovory]

They weren't specifically trying to kill civilians, per se, they were trying to target civilian morale.  And yes, the general British targeting strategy did differ radically from that of the Americans, not as to aims, but as to methods.  Nighttime area bombing, IMO, was essentially terror bombing.  And frankly, I don't really have a problem with that in the context of the times.

Terror bombing in the sense that they wanted the people to be constantly afraid that their night's rest will be shattered by air raid sirens and they will have to go to the shelters, and come out to find their homes gone, yes.  This is a far cry from "killing civilians for the sake of it," which is, after all, the argument I am opposing.

So Allied air forces restricted themselves into only bombing areas with adequate air shelters?  Cause burning someone's house down when you know they are likely to be in it sounds a lot like trying to kill people.

[Norgy]

They'd "come out" and find their homes shattered, as Germans were notoriously slutty back in the day. And a bit gay.