Never thought I would agree with Tennessee lawmakers on anything

Started by Martinus, March 17, 2016, 07:21:57 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Berkut

Huh - the bill apparently does NOT protect administrators or instructors from being punished for there micro-aggression accusations, just the students.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

grumbler

Quote from: alfred russel on March 17, 2016, 10:31:59 AM
Disorderly conduct doesn't mean just about anything. If it did, people could be arrested for just about anything.

That's the main objection to disorderly conduct arrests - they are arbitrary since almost any behavior at all can be called "disorderly" if the arresting officer so desires. Conviction is another matter, of course, and that's why DO arrests are not more common.

QuoteI don't know what the definition of disorderly conduct is in Tennessee, but someone disrupting a class or obstructing test administration (such as by announcing answers during the test) would meet a reasonable one. Those were your examples. The school wouldn't be punishing students for the content of their speech, but the disorderly conduct.

The requirement is that one must be "intending to upset or alarm others" and also "creates a dangerous or offensive condition without a good reason," or "making excessive noise that prevents other people from going about their business."  Calling out the answers to a test wouldn't seem to meet any of the requirements except perhaps "intending to upset.. others" and in that case still doesn't create a "dangerous or offensive condition."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2016, 11:36:43 AM
True but they are usually appointed by the Governor and approved by the legislature.

I don't know about "usually."  In Michigan they are elected by statewide ballot.  In Virginia, they are appointed by the Governor with, as you write, approval of the legislature (though House of Delegates, not state senate, which I thought interesting).
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

alfred russel

Quote from: grumbler on March 17, 2016, 12:25:51 PM
Calling out the answers to a test wouldn't seem to meet any of the requirements except perhaps "intending to upset.. others" and in that case still doesn't create a "dangerous or offensive condition."

I disagree.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

dps

Quote from: alfred russel on March 17, 2016, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 17, 2016, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 17, 2016, 09:48:11 AM
Those things could be considered disorderly conduct.

Yes, but that's a criminal charge.  The school couldn't punish the students and they'd have to call the cops.  Would the cops even respond if there is no threat of violence and no harm to the public?

The article states that:

The law itself, which is to be discussed next Tuesday by the Education, Administration and Planning subcommittee, would prohibit schools from “punishing, disciplining, or censuring students for the content of students’ lawful speech by way of or through any of the faculty, employees, or organizations of the institution.”

It doesn't say that the school is prohibited from punishing unlawful speech that the police aren't responding to.

I think the key word in the bit you bolded is "content".  It seems that the schools wouldn't be able to punish a student for the content of their speech, but they could punish them the circumstances under which it was uttered--as in, for example, trying to disrupt a class.  That seems appropriate to me.