Rise of American Authoritarianism

[Valmy]

Meri I know I bust on you a lot but you always brighten up the place when you come back

See? Even in an Old Boys' Club, there's room for a chick or two.

Eh it is only because we came from a historical war game forum. There is nothing in our bylaws about being a boys club.

[Razgovory]

It's not a bad article, but there some things I'm curious about.  There has to be people with authoritarian tendencies in the Democratic party.  How does that manifest?

[Valmy]

There has to be people with authoritarian tendencies in the Democratic party.  How does that manifest?

It manifests as Ide?

Course he is not really a party stalwart.

[DGuller]

It's not a bad article, but there some things I'm curious about.  There has to be people with authoritarian tendencies in the Democratic party.  How does that manifest?

It probably doesn't, in that sense.  Authoritarianism everywhere in the world goes hand in hand with social conservatism, and Democrats are not the socially conservative party.  Liberals, when they do engage in activities that are actually quite illiberal, crowdsource it with things like political correctness.

[Eddie Teach]

Authoritarianism everywhere in the world goes hand in hand with social conservatism,

I don't think that's true. Lenin and Mao wanted to radically change society, and even the Nazis had policies that undermined the family and church in favor of the party and state. I think it'd be more accurate to say stable authoritarian governments wishing to keep power above all else turn to social conservatism, in some cases after having created the current social order themselves.

[celedhring]

Venezuela is certainly authoritarian and leftist, if we want a current example. Both social conservatism and revolutionary leftism have ideological tools that can be used to sustain an authoritarian regime.

[grumbler]

Authoritarianism everywhere in the world goes hand in hand with social conservatism,

I don't think that's true. Lenin and Mao wanted to radically change society, and even the Nazis had policies that undermined the family and church in favor of the party and state. I think it'd be more accurate to say stable authoritarian governments wishing to keep power above all else turn to social conservatism, in some cases after having created the current social order themselves.

Check your privilege.  His tribe doesn't believe that non-social-conservatives can be authoritarian.  It is a microaggression on your part to provide evidence that challenges his tribe's beliefs.

[grumbler]

Venezuela is certainly authoritarian and leftist, if we want a current example. Both social conservatism and revolutionary leftism have ideological tools that can be used to sustain an authoritarian regime.

Exactly.  Pol Pot was certainly authoritarian and certainly not a social conservative.  Mao's Cultural Revolution was an authoritarian social revolution.

[Legbiter]

Saying leftists can't be authoritarian is ableist. Wow, just wow, I can't even. 

[DGuller]

I certainly thought of both USSR and Venezuela when I made that post.  But in those cases it was a revolution, and revolutions of all stripes are messy.

In the context that we're discussing this here, a slow gradual descent into authoritarianism, it almost always happens on the back of protecting traditional values of some kind.

[celedhring]

I certainly thought of both USSR and Venezuela when I made that post.  But in those cases it was a revolution, and revolutions of all stripes are messy.

In the context that we're discussing this here, a slow gradual descent into authoritarianism, it almost always happens on the back of protecting traditional values of some kind.

Chávez was voted into office,  and he used left wing populism to chip away at democracy from within. How is that an exception?

[Razgovory]

I think some of you are missing the title of the thread.  American Authoritarianism.

[Jacob]

I certainly thought of both USSR and Venezuela when I made that post.  But in those cases it was a revolution, and revolutions of all stripes are messy.

In the context that we're discussing this here, a slow gradual descent into authoritarianism, it almost always happens on the back of protecting traditional values of some kind.

Yeah, I concur.

The argument is not that people who proclaim leftist values cannot be authoritarian; clearly they can.

It's rather that as self-proclaimed leftists move from less authoritarian leftism to more authoritarian leftism, they generally become more socially conservative as well. At least that's how it seems to me.

The Soviet Union centralized control and became more totalitarian, it also moved further towards social conservatism in terms of tolerance of gays, Jews etc. Conversely, as China has moved to a somewhat less totalitarian mode of governance, it has also become somewhat more socially liberal.

[Jacob]

Mao's Cultural Revolution was an authoritarian social revolution.

To me that fits the pattern, in that the Cultural Revolution was a move towards authoritarianism accompanied by less tolerance for social differences.

I guess it depends what we mean by "social conservatism". I take it to mean "less tolerance of divergence from the established ideal social norms" rather than "adherence to a specific set of social values" (i.e. small c- conservative protestant nuclear family); you can be a socially conservative polygamous matriarchal heathen, for example, if that's the baseline values of your society and if you support using social and political power to pressure others into conform to polygamous matriarchal heathen behaviour and punish those who diverge from it.

[Norgy]

The only leftists without an authoritarian gene are anarchosyndicalists. They, however, tend to support violence as a means to an end.
Democratic socialists tend to support a nanny state, which in itself may not be very authoritarian, but more paternalistic.
Communists are clearly authoritarian.

I'm some off-brand social democrat with no real clear agenda.