Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Sheilbh

Quote from: Josquius on March 13, 2023, 05:52:59 AMThe Tories again stop the Scottish government from doing something which seems like a pretty sensible minor law rather than a grave attack on the union.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/13/uk-government-poised-to-block-scottish-bottle-recycling-scheme

 :hmm:
Not really. That article just has the usual feeling of a London-based writer when Scotland enters the news.

The scheme has been a slow-moving disaster for the SNP - it's become an issue in the leadership race with Kate Forbes especially sayiing it's well intentioned but could cause carnage economically (possibly also relevant that she's a Highlands MSP and the rural counties especially have been ringing the alarm on this scheme for years). Ash Regan has also called for it to be scrapped. Yousaf who's the continuity candidate has said it needs to be changed to entirely exempt small businesses. I think the Scottish government has already announced that they're shifting and the scheme will only be ready to launch in August for a few very big businesses.

Retailers, hospitality, councils and small manufacturers have been complaining about it for a long time. Just last month Innis and Gunn said they would have to stop selling bottles in Scotland - I think the SNP minister responsible replied by saying their cans are better anyway.

The UK government announced in 2019 that it was planning to introduce DRS. The current timeline is 2025 and the regulations are currently out for consultation. Coincidentally in 2019 the Scottish government announced they would launch a separate DRS in 2023. It's just about having an earlier and slightly different scheme than the rest of the UK. There's been rows since the start about in particular how to charge VAT, which is a UK government competence, and the impact on different regulations to the same product within the UK, again a UK government competence. It's very politically motivated and has been up there with the ferries in terms of incompetence.
Let's bomb Russia!

HVC

Quote from: The Larch on March 13, 2023, 06:19:06 AMThe BBC backtracks and brings Lineker back.

But now the conservatives say this means the end of licensing fees. So the Tories win in the end and alls well that ends well :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

The Larch

Quote from: HVC on March 13, 2023, 08:58:19 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 13, 2023, 06:19:06 AMThe BBC backtracks and brings Lineker back.

But now the conservatives say this means the end of licensing fees. So the Tories win in the end and alls well that ends well :D

Huh? When was that announced?

Sheilbh

#24393
Quote from: The Larch on March 13, 2023, 09:32:51 AMHuh? When was that announced?
It's not - it's just a joke. Licence fee is guaranteed up to the next charter renewal in 2027.

But Tories always gripe about it.

Edit: Although there may be a shift in part because the licence fee is a weird model when less and less consumption of the BBC is happening over broadcast.

I've read some reports suggesting it might in the future move to a specific tax on broadband or maybe, like Canada and Australia, being funded out of general taxation. But I'd expect it to still be just a licence fee - maybe a cut there but a separate broadband licence fee style tax and then you slowly move away from the TV licence to broadband. Although, having said that, there's still a few thousand homes on the black and white licence fee so... :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

The Brain

Sweden moved from licence fee to tax a few years ago.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Brain on March 13, 2023, 09:52:10 AMSweden moved from licence fee to tax a few years ago.
It is anachronistic.

Even 10 years ago when I was still young, most people I knew watched TV on their laptops. Technically you were meant to have a licence fee to watch iPlayer (but there's no way of checking) - and fair to say that not everyone did :lol:

I think looking at broadband connection rather than TV ownership in the long run makes sense - I'm a little more worried about an actual tax becaue the licence fee is part of BBC independence. They're guaranteed their own little tax for five years every five years so their funding is sort of fixed for that period and doesn't depend on the whims of government or elections.
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 13, 2023, 09:43:09 AMI've read some reports suggesting it might in the future move to a specific tax on broadband or maybe, like Canada and Australia, being funded out of general taxation. But I'd expect it to still be just a licence fee - maybe a cut there but a separate broadband licence fee style tax and then you slowly move away from the TV licence to broadband. Although, having said that, there's still a few thousand homes on the black and white licence fee so... :lol:

Black and white licence fee?  :hmm:

Even with a black and white TV set, there is no longer any black and white broadcast, isn't it? Can't link the B&W to a Digital Terrestrial TV box through Euroscart, obsolete now too (still valuable for retro-gaming however).

HVC

Sorry yes, it was tongue in cheek. Some tory mps are claiming that this is the death knell of the fee. Trying to roll this into a victory for conservatives everywhere :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Sheilbh

I think we're down to about 4,000 people (from over 200,000 in 2000 :blink:). Yeah they can't get digital Freeview but I assume they still dial in to analog broadcasts - so just the five channels I imagine.

Although I suspect they're not big TV watchers :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Got the SNP leadership timing wrong - ballot opens today. Ranked choice so we'll see - the public prefer Kate Forbes but some SNP figures are saying they'd leave the party if she wins.

I said that Humza Yousaf being the continuity candidate is like the Tories turning to Chris Grayling or Matt Hancock as leader - and the latest polling is bad for him. Two to one voters think of him as weak, untrustworthy and incompetent - which is fair, he's got a very bad record as minister.

Separately it's only one poll etc etc - but latest poll has support for independence under 40% and the SNP losing a fifth of their seats to Scottish Labour at the next election.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

This is the problem with Kate Forbes - because this is a live issue. In the interviews tonight was sked if a gay adult man should be allowed to have "conversion therapy" if he wants it and said "it's his choice".

That is, for example, to the right of the Tory party (government announced in January that they're planning a full ban of therapy aimed at changing someone's sexual orientation or gender identity).

For a party that's tried to pitch itself as "progressive" (I'd argue that's always been dubious) and that's succeeded by killing off Scottish Labour, I think she'll cause things to unravel - even if they move back to old SNP territory as "tartan Tories" and convert some Tory unionists to the "Yes" cause (especially if Labour win the next election).
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

That is a weird area with conversion therapy though.
With kids it's obviously horrific and beyond the pale.
But if an adult hyper Christian guy wants to learn tricks to control the "impure urges" and its entirely his choice... The only potential downside I see is that of false advertising and being sold a "cure".
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Sheilbh

I know the Lineker story attracted all the attention - but the BBC announced they're scrapping their professional choir, the only professional classical choir in the country as well as other cuts to their orchestras. Reading this leaked letter by the co-directors of the BBC Singers. I get the BBC has difficult decisions due to inflation and spending not increasing etc - but again with the World Service decisions, the arts broadcasting decisions and the strategy focusing on more popular broadcasting it does feel like the senior management basically don't give a shit about the public service bit of their remit:
QuoteFrom Jonathan Manners and Rob Johnston, Acting Co-Directors of the BBC Singers
cc. Musician's Union (on behalf of the BBC Singers)
National Union of Journalists (our union)
Sir Nick Serota – Independent Director, BBC Board
Sir Damon Buffini – Deputy Chair, BBC Board
Richard Sharp – Chair, BBC Board

Dear Richard, 13 March 2023

Whilst we are sure that the BBC will be hearing from the Musicians Union in their official capacity as the union representatives of the BBC Singers, as Chairman of the BBC, we wanted to write directly to you to raise our serious concerns. The events of the last six months, culminating in the appalling decision to close the BBC Singers last week has caused an overwhelming response of condemnation from a large number of eminent musicians both in the UK and around the world, including a petition on change.org now containing signatures from over 100,000 license fee payers and members of the public. Following discussions with our colleagues within the BBC and external industry professionals, we feel it is our duty as BBC employees to raise serious questions about the conduct of your senior management team, together with the lack of any credible process that has led to the purported closure of the BBC Singers. We have taken time to consider the best way to raise our concern and, given their severity and the wide-spread distrust of those in authority at the BBC, we feel we have no other option but to bring these matters to the attention of the board.

Having spoken to many of our BBC colleagues over the last week, there is a recurring narrative of toxic culture that now exists at the BBC, reflected in the working environment from the Director General downwards. Our own experiences of aggressive and confrontational dialogue (particularly with Lorna Clarke) have been echoed time and time again in accounts from other colleagues. A culture of fear and paranoia has been created as seismic decisions on the corporation's future are taken at speed without any proper analysis or meaningful consultation.

We would like to meet with you to make you aware of the detailed facts. Lorna Clarke would have been best placed to respond to these for you, but we are aware that as of last Friday, she is on annual leave for two weeks – a fact that only highlights the lack of foresight and responsibility from your senior team following the proposed destruction of the BBC's professional choir and cuts within the corporation's English orchestras. Whilst Lorna Clarke has attended 1 x Prom in which the BBC Singers were taking part, you are the only other person in the senior team who has heard the BBC Singers – no one else responsible for this decision has taken the time to visit one of our own-promotion concerts, rehearsals, recordings or education events. Not even the author of the Classical Review.

Lorna Clarke's behaviour during this process has been questioned frequently – indeed at a meeting with the BBC Singers last Thursday, Lorna was overtly dismissive of questioning making clear her lack of time for this process. She left the meeting early leaving her colleague, Simon Webb, who wept in the room in front of the BBC Singers. This is not an isolated incident with your team, and we understand a similar situation took place with a senior manager in Radio 2 relating to Ken Bruce's early departure from the network. It is no coincidence that the calamitous handling of the proposed closure of the BBC Singers came from this same person who is responsible for the management of the departures of Ken, Steve Wright and Paul O'Grady.

There is a stark contrast between the reality of negotiating with the senior management at the BBC and the hyperbole that is reported in external and internal comms. The press release on the classical restructure that was released last week was a crass embarrassment and neglectful representation of the facts, and it is staggering that an organisation that is supposed to represent the best in worldwide broadcasting felt that the way the BBC has communicated its plans to the public would do anything other than create the mess you now find yourselves in.
For clarity, here are the facts we would like to discuss:
The messaging around the closure of the BBC Singers has been shambolic and created chaos. On Tuesday, Lorna Clarke presented the closure as a fait accompli to the BBC Singers, which reflected the BBC's press release. Two days later, she and Simon Webb said that this was an error and that the Singers were now starting a consultation process with their union and the BBC about their future. On Friday, Charlotte Moore sent out an internal comms message confirming the closure of the BBC Singers. Later the same afternoon we heard from a senior member of staff (who wishes to remain anonymous) that the consultation period now promised to the BBC Singers is actually only for the orchestras. How is such mishandling acceptable? For the sake of clarity we do not accept that the BBC
Singers are excluded from consultation in this process.


The inadequacy and inaccuracy of the BBC's Classical Review. During a meeting with Rachel Jupp (whowrote the report) she informed us that she had spoken to just two people about the UK choral industry, both outside the BBC, and that one of those was a child. The report confirms that there was no interaction or consultation with any of the many choral experts in the UK. This highlights the dangerous neglect by senior members of staff towards the classical music offering of the BBC.

• We have recently discovered that after this report, which barely mentions singing, was published in the first half of 2022, an internal memo was sent to the Heads of Departments and Controllers of the BBC's network radio stations which recommended that the BBC Singers be axed. Inappropriately, Mohit Bakaya (Controller of BBC Radio 4) shared this confidential proposal with other BBC staff members at an external industry event in Germany in October 2022. If that were not unprofessional enough, the person with whom he shared this information was the Assistant Producer of the BBC Singers who was at the event. The Assistant Producer (able to afford the BBC greater discretion and confidentiality than the controller of one of your network stations) reported the matter to us, and we challenged Lorna Clarke and Rachel Jupp the next working day. Lorna's eventual reaction was that Mohit was 'confused' with a hypothetical interview question for the role of Controller of BBC Radio 3. Had we been given the truth, we could have instigated proper dialogue at that time involving the unions, and enabled the BBC to consult with leading figures in our industry. We were however told on numerous occasions that no such document existed, no decisions had been made about the future of the BBC Singers, and that we should continue our advance planning into 2024 and beyond.

• As a result of the above mentioned internal memo, no industry professionals were consulted on the impact of shutting the BBC Singers. The only result of Mohit Bakaya's indiscretion was that we were asked to write numerous papers and make suggestions as to how the BBC Singers could reduce its budget whilst still providing the BBC with choral content. It is totally apparent from subsequent events that this process was a sham. At no time were the Directors of the BBC's Orchestras invited to join up with us to work together in finding solutions to enable all ensembles to keep working.

• Despite numerous requests, Lorna Clarke has never been able to offer a financial figure for us to work towards. Indeed, the exact figures that will be saved from these cuts have never been provided or publicised. In our meeting with Lorna and Simon on 09/03/23, Lorna admitted that she doesn't know what the exact savings will be from these cuts.

Charlotte Moore stated in her email to the corporation last Tuesday – 'We're confident this strategy is the right one to respond to financial challenges, future-proof our ensembles and invest in education'. However, we challenged this with Lorna and Simon on Thursday, and they admitted that there is no strategy as yet, no budgets have been created and this new strategy has not been costed. There has been no research at all into how this new strategy can deliver value for all audiences. The non-existent strategy is pure fabrication. Indeed, it may even be more expensive than keeping the BBC Singers.

This is an accurate account of the shameful neglect your senior team show towards the arts, and the choral sector in particular. Repeatedly, members of your senior executive team have been aggressive in their manner, inconsiderate in their approach and delivery of this devastating news, and bombastically uninformed in their replies to questions posed to them from our staff members.

We look forward to your response and hope that we will be allowed proper opportunity to find a better solution for the BBC: maintaining our choral offering, via the BBC Singers, within a transparent budget. In any event we believe that you should now withdraw the planned closure of the BBC Singers and cuts to the Philharmonic, Concert and Symphony Orchestras as the process is entirely flawed.

The events of the past months have shocked us all, and we believe they go against the BBC's core values. We both have no confidence in the senior management of the BBC, and feel that as Chair of the corporation you need to take full responsibility for the crisis we are now in. We are both gravely aware of the professional connotations of taking this drastic measure in contacting you, but on behalf of the artform we represent, for the BBC, for the world-class singers and players of the BBC's professional choir and orchestras, and for the sake of posterity, we need to bring these matters to your attention.

Kind regards,
Rob Johnston and Jonathan Manners

Announcing your absolute faith that you've chosen the right strategy only to later reveal there is no strategy feels very W1A.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

FFS :bleeding: Abolish the Treasury and the Home Office.

No article yet but from Times' Political Editor. HS2 being further delayed by the Treasury to save money now despite being shown that this increase the cost in the long run and have other costly consequences:
QuoteSteven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
Breaking:

Labour says it has obtained a leaked DfT document showing that HS2 delay will increase costs, lead to job cuts and could see construction firms go bust

Louise Haigh says that the document suggests HS2 could terminate on the outskirts of London until 2041
Louise Haigh says that the document 'blows apart' government's claim that HS2 delays were about balancing nation's books

'Isn't it time the minister came clean about this absurd plan that will hit jobs, hurt growth and cost taxpayers even more?'
Fury from Tory MPs over HS2:

Alec Shelbrooke says rail plan is 'cobblers' and that HS2 from Crewe to Manchester will never happen

Greg Smith, Tory MP for Buckingham, says govt has inflicted 'misery' on his constituents and HS2 should be scrapped altogether
Chris Bryant, Labour MP for Rhondda, says he does not think there is any chance of HS2 trains 'chugging into central London' in his lifetime

'And I'm not intending to shuffle off this mortal coil very soon,' he says after laughter from colleagues

Also what a fucking shambles if HS2 ends up linking a suburb in North-West Greater London with Crewe :lol: :bleeding:

This sort of nonsense is, with planning, the biggest obstacle for a Labour government with plans to move to a zero carbon grid by 2030 or have largescale industrial strategy. Only positive is that I think policy people on left and right are starting to realise this is the problem and the scale of it as it's a great example of what Robert Colville's (right-winger) very simple diagram of every British infrastructure project ever (also reminiscent of many IT projects I've worked on :ph34r:):
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Ed Miliband showing his natural talent for political communication here, calling for a British IRA :ph34r:
QuoteEd Miliband
@Ed_Miliband
A British Inflation Reduction Act would cut bills, deliver energy security, create good jobs, and provide climate leadership

Great to speak to @PickardJE about Labour's plans to win the race for green industries and make Britain a clean energy superpower

Separately, this was mainly from a set of poling of voters in "Red Wall" seats and generally was about the recent improvement in Sunak's personal ratings. They're miles ahead of views of the Tory party and it does increasingly look like the Tories' 2024 campaign will, as Stephen Bush put it, basically be: "Rishi Sunak! Unfortunately associated with the Conservative Party".

But any polling like this that includes Liz Truss just makes me lauch - she's almost a joke answer at this point :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!