Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

Quote from: Syt on December 05, 2022, 01:16:40 AMI wasn't aware that Charles used to have a beard. Should have kept it IMO.



As a human man purely in terms of how it looks - yes.

As a royal - dangerous game. Especially considering the already dangerous name of Charles.
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Gups

Quote from: Sheilbh on December 04, 2022, 05:28:27 AMNo. I don't think historical counties have any powers.



I suppose it depends on what you mean by "historical" counties - there was a re-drawing of some county boundaries in the early 1970s anda few smaller counties were abolished as political/admistrative units.

But county councils (most of whom are historical counties) have significant powers. It particualr, they are responsiblefor highways (except motorways and trunk roads), eductaion, libraries, leisure centres, social care, waste management etc.

The position is complicated beacuse some areas run a two tier system with county council and district councils, others (mainly rural) are unitary authorities and these may be district or county councils. So for example Cornwall County Council is a unitary authority with resposibility for all the above services plus planning etc. whereas Kent is two tier with 12 district councils and a county council, having different roles.

It's a hodge podge and it's unnecessarily complicated but it's not at all true that counties don't have powers.

mongers

Quote from: Gups on December 05, 2022, 04:59:00 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 04, 2022, 05:28:27 AMNo. I don't think historical counties have any powers.



I suppose it depends on what you mean by "historical" counties - there was a re-drawing of some county boundaries in the early 1970s anda few smaller counties were abolished as political/admistrative units.

But county councils (most of whom are historical counties) have significant powers. It particualr, they are responsiblefor highways (except motorways and trunk roads), eductaion, libraries, leisure centres, social care, waste management etc.

The position is complicated beacuse some areas run a two tier system with county council and district councils, others (mainly rural) are unitary authorities and these may be district or county councils. So for example Cornwall County Council is a unitary authority with resposibility for all the above services plus planning etc. whereas Kent is two tier with 12 district councils and a county council, having different roles.

It's a hodge podge and it's unnecessarily complicated but it's not at all true that counties don't have powers.

:yes:


And it does get confusing; I'll have to report a cattle grid filling up with down-wash earth* and I can't for the life of me remember if it's Hampshire CC, New Forest DC or the New forest national park itself. :bleeding:


* there's a risk the more sure footed horses and cows will be able to walk across into the normal road network.

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Jacob

Quote from: Gups on December 05, 2022, 04:59:00 AMI suppose it depends on what you mean by "historical" counties - there was a re-drawing of some county boundaries in the early 1970s anda few smaller counties were abolished as political/admistrative units.

Crusader Kings III counties.

Zanza

So basically all you need is a constitutional change that moves some revenue from Westminster to the existing lower levels of government. Not sure how this works with parliament being able to undo constitutional changes like that later though.

Tamas

Quote from: Zanza on December 05, 2022, 11:37:39 AMSo basically all you need is a constitutional change that moves some revenue from Westminster to the existing lower levels of government. Not sure how this works with parliament being able to undo constitutional changes like that later though.

I hope a big Labour win will serve as a catalyst but I am skeptical about any major changes in this country. It seems like the only demographics taking active interest in politics are the ones with various vested interests in making sure nothing of substance changes. There are a LOT of people who could benefit from changes but are convinced to remain inactive.

OttoVonBismarck

UK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.

Zanza

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.
The right has been in power for twelve years though.

OttoVonBismarck

Quote from: Zanza on December 05, 2022, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.
The right has been in power for twelve years though.

The right is also anti-growth, which I assumed went without needing to be said.

Josquius

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.

Not my experience of that sub at all.
It has a number of people from the left but an awful lot from the right. The moderation team are very right wing.
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OttoVonBismarck

Quote from: Josquius on December 05, 2022, 11:55:42 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.

Not my experience of that sub at all.
It has a number of people from the left but an awful lot from the right. The moderation team are very right wing.

Hm, as an American right of center type I may have a different gauge for what I consider left wing than you.  :lol:

Sheilbh

Quote from: Gups on December 05, 2022, 04:59:00 AMIt's a hodge podge and it's unnecessarily complicated but it's not at all true that counties don't have powers.
Sorry that was my bad phrasing.

I meant more that historical counties are a thing but they don't in themselves have any political powers. Some overlap with the local government unit, others don't but where they don't they might still matter - like Yorkshire.

Although I feel like given all the cities and metropolitan areas now it's probably only a few where the local government council maps onto the historical county - maybe like Kent? :huh:

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.
Yes, I think that's broadly fair - although a lot of the issues and ideas about solutions are converging especially in the think tanks on both right and left. I think that will be reflected in politics in the future - but maybe not now.

In a way it's why I'm relatively optimistic. The problems now seem less insurmountable to me than in, say, the 70s. There's broad consensus about what the issues are and how to fix them - it just needs a government with the basic competence to do that and that's willing to spend political capital on it. You can see it in that so much of the language from Brown's review is echoed in what Gove and Johnson have said about leveling up - everyone's got a sense of the issues. I think a Labour government with a majority can fix a lot of these problems.

I'm not sure about Brown's 40 point plan (possibly the most Gordon Brown thing imaginable - a list of 40 priorities :lol:). A lot of the people I follow online who write about this stuff are impressed with bits of it. From what I've read it seems quite Brownite and I'm not sure that's a great thing. I looked at the members of Brown's commission and the thing that screamed out to me was there was no business representation.

It is striking that the big constitutional reforms under the last Labour government had broadly been thought about a lot by big shadow cabinet figures. There were senior active Labour politicians pushing Scottish devolution, the Human Rights Act - Blair himself was intimately involved in the Good Friday Agreement and that constitutional settlement. I'm not sure the right approach was to get a party grandee who's been out of active frontline politics for 12 years to do a review. That's what Blair did with Roy Jenkins' commission into electoral reform which was quietly shelved rather than leading to a big constitutional reform.
Let's bomb Russia!

Zanza

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:55:19 AM
Quote from: Zanza on December 05, 2022, 11:45:43 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 05, 2022, 11:42:00 AMUK is just super anti-growth as far as I can tell. I troll r/ukpolitics on reddit from time to time and it is very left leaning (much moreso than the UK overall) and most of the lefties seem super antigrowth.
The right has been in power for twelve years though.

The right is also anti-growth, which I assumed went without needing to be said.
Fair enough. Best example: thread title.

Admiral Yi

In England a booster shot is called a borcestershire shot.

Stolen from interweb.

Valmy

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 05, 2022, 11:48:01 PMIn England a booster shot is called a borcestershire shot.

Stolen from interweb.

 :lol: Ok that is pretty great.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."