Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa aren't actually part of the United States, they are just territories we hold in trust for people who cannot govern themselves.

While not an island, would you trust the Welsh to govern themselves?

[Maladict]

Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa aren't actually part of the United States, they are just territories we hold in trust for people who cannot govern themselves.

So an even worse reason to give them their own national teams.

[Maladict]

I think Netherland's other teams are the same, right? Island possessions not actually part of the Netherlands.

They are constituent countries within the Kingdom, not unlike the UK.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I mean I'm fine w/not giving America's minor territorial possessions national teams--but I'm also saying they are not actually part of the United States, quite definitionally Scotland and Wales are part of the United Kingdom by laws dating back some 3+ centuries now.

[Josquius]

Meh. The British teams are grandfathered in. Its not like a special exception was made for them with all else being equal.

[Tamas]

It is true though the that logical thing would be -if we accept the separate British teams as default- that each US state should field their own national team. Not to mention the German states.

[Josquius]

It is true though the that logical thing would be -if we accept the separate British teams as default- that each US state should field their own national team. Not to mention the German states.

It is a sad quirk of history that international sport really took off after the big 19th century nationalist surge.
It would be cool if things were set before German and Italian unification.

I guess we also have to blame that pretty much every major team sport comes from Britain. It is a wonder what could have happened if one had arisen in Germany instead - would the German States be seperate and Britain United?

[Barrister]

It is true though the that logical thing would be -if we accept the separate British teams as default- that each US state should field their own national team. Not to mention the German states.

It is a sad quirk of history that international sport really took off after the big 19th century nationalist surge.
It would be cool if things were set before German and Italian unification.

I guess we also have to blame that pretty much every major team sport comes from Britain. It is a wonder what could have happened if one had arisen in Germany instead - would the German States be seperate and Britain United?

I think it's more than just "every major team sport comes from Britain" - Britain pretty much came up with the idea of organized and standardized team sports and then exported THAT idea around the world.

So even sports that weren't directly invented by Brits like baseball (albeit evolved from cricket and other stick-and-ball games) and basketball still inherited that idea of team sports in the first place.

[OttoVonBismarck]

It is true though the that logical thing would be -if we accept the separate British teams as default- that each US state should field their own national team. Not to mention the German states.

Right--the German States, at least some of them, have a much stronger "logical" argument because they didn't technically get merged into a truly united Germany until after WWI.

Wales has and had certain unique laws, but frankly would hardly be considered as autonomous as a Canadian Province or an American state until very, very recently. I worked with a Welshman (older guy) who emigrated to the States in the 1980s and he said in his day essentially no one in Wales could speak Welsh, that it was something you had to take a few classes of growing up and immediately forgot.

It's all good and well that Scotland/Wales have accrued a lot of devolved powers (and at least Scotland has always had its own law system even after it lost the dual monarchy), but by the standards of really any other federation style country (of which there are numerous), no one seriously views Wales / Scotland as anything but political parts of the country of the United Kingdom.

[Tamas]

I strongly suspect this was a political ploy to make brexit a thing again and shore up tory support.

This is probably true by the way.

[Zanza]

At the 1974 World Cup two German teams played against each other despite Germany officially being one country, just with two separate administrations.

[Zanza]

Right--the German States, at least some of them, have a much stronger "logical" argument because they didn't technically get merged into a truly united Germany until after WWI.

What do you refer to? Germany had a federal structure since the 1867 NGF constitution. That established the competences of member states and the federal government, which has been adjusted many times since, but in principle is still the same. And of course goes back to the HRE constitution. 

The only time Germany was a centralized state without remaining powers on the state level was after the Gleichschaltung in late 1933. That ended with the postwar order established by the Allies in 1945.

[Maladict]

At the 1974 World Cup two German teams played against each other despite Germany officially being one country, just with two separate administrations.

In the 1954 WC qualification West Germany played against Saarland.

[Tamas]

I am glad that both major parties agree that the real problem is that this island isn't isolated enough from the rest of the world.

According to the extract from Keir Starmer's speech to the CBI released by Labour in advance, he will say that a Labour government would be "pragmatic" on the shortage of workers in the economy and would not ignore the need for "skilled people' to come to the country. But he will go on:

But I want to be clear here: with my Labour government any movement in our point-based migration system, whether via the skilled occupation route, or the shortage worker list, will come with new conditions for business.

We will expect you to bring forward a clear plan for higher skills and more training, for better pay and conditions, for investment in new technology.

But our common goal must be to help the British economy off its immigration dependency. To start investing more in training up workers who are already here.

Migration is part of our national story – always has been, always will be. And the Labour party will never diminish the contribution it makes to the economy, to public services, to your businesses and our communities.

But let me tell you - the days when low pay and cheap labour are part of the British way on growth must end.

Now, I know most businesses get this. But when we look at our economy as a whole, it can seem like we're more comfortable hiring people to work in low paid, insecure, sometimes exploitative contracts than we are investing in the new technology that delivers for workers, productivity and our country.

And we can't compete like that. Britain's low pay model has to go. It doesn't serve working people. It's not compatible with grassroots growth.

[Threviel]

At the 1912 Olympics, which can be seen as the last major sporting events where a few UK-style empires were present there are a few weird nations.

Austria-Hungary was represented by Austria, Hungary and Bohemia.
GB was represented by GB.
Australia and NZ by Australasia.
Denmark by Denmark and Iceland
Ottoman Empire by Turkey, might just be naming convention.

Early Ice Hockey competitions (European championships) also saw A-H participation by Austria and Bohemia and interesting enough GB.

So it seems to have been a common occurance way back and the only significant (not counting Jersey, Samoa or Aruba and the like) rest of it seems to be GB in various sports.