Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Meh. I know its a common thing to whinge about the police wasting time on people being mean on twitter rather than catching burglars or whatever but the two are hardly comparable. Pretty easy win to tackle a crime when you've the evidence easily available.
The problem there I guess lies in the police being forced to put an emphasis on prosecution numbers - a very right wing thing.

Prosecution numbers have also massively collapsed - not as badly as specifically for sexual crimes - but the rate of crimes being "solved" as in leading to a prosecution has halved. It is incredibly right-wing () but I think it's a bad thing that in half of England's police areas (so neighbourhoods basically) no burglary or theft has been "solved" in the last three years.

Obviously I think that's an austerity story as much as anything else - and why I think Labour could benefit from campaigning on law and order. But I do also think that the police have perhaps chosen to focus on things that are easy to close with a fixed penalty notice.

[The Larch]

Re. protests and police repression against them, a barrister & climate activist posted this on Twitter today:

Just went to Parliament Square & held up a blank piece of paper. Officer came & asked for my details. He confirmed that if I wrote "Not My King" on it, he would arrest me under the Public Order Act because someone might be offended.

[Sheilbh]

The video is crazy:
https://twitter.com/paulpowlesland/status/1569351772606550022?s=20&t=rkVjqjms_KTib4kB2KS74w

(Annoyingly the free speech crowd are actually being consistent about this - I was slightly hoping for a "why we should arrest republicans" takes).

Edit:  Also a young man who shouted at the procession to the Cathedral "Andrew - you're a sick old man!"

By the looks of it he was then attacked by a couple of members of the crowd (who threw him to the ground - he looks young and very skinny). I can see why the police take him away from the crowd (and the most benign interpretation is they don't want scenes like that where someone provokes others in the crowd) but arresting him isn't justified and they should have taken the members of the crowd who attacked him away too surely.

Edit: Incidentally from what I can see all of this is being done on police public order powers that were already in place, not the new legislation. It's been the case for many years that the UK is an unusual country where you can, in effect, be arrested for being rude.

Twitter lawyers are pointing out the Parliament Square ones might be slightly more complicated because there are specific rules for that square (passed to evict an anti-war protester who camped in Parliament Square for several years).

[Josquius]

Yes, I do think it's the emphasis on prosecutions that lead to a lack of effort on burglaries. The police are incentivised to chase low hanging fruit whilst burglaries tend to be really hard to solve.

I know a local policeman and he says the job is a big balance between doing his job for the town - taking actions that will have the biggest impact on crime reduction - and doing his job for the politicians - chasing pure numbers.

[The Larch]

The video is crazy:
https://twitter.com/paulpowlesland/status/1569351772606550022?s=20&t=rkVjqjms_KTib4kB2KS74w

That's the same guy I quoted, yes.

[Sheilbh]

Very impressive choreography in Northern Ireland around all of this.

Sinn Fein and I think the SDLP did not attend at the proclamation this weekend because they do not belong to a political tradition with any allegiance to the crown. But Sinn Fein issued a gracious statement (and messages to all members to not say anything that might be offensive on social media etc).

Then today to the memorial service in Belfast which was attended by political leaders of all parties as well as the President of Ireland and the Taoiseach. Before going to Hillsborough to hear tributes, including from the Sinn Fein speaker at Stormont who I think did a very good job. From what I saw of Charles' response, he also got the tone.

And on the streets you've had, I'd say, the most positive and crowded public response to Charles from anywhere so far - which, to an extent, you'd expect in Northern Ireland.

I don't know if it will lead to anything more practical on a political level, but it felt like everyone has handled the situation quite well there and mood music matters. Particularly at a point when the unionists have been feeling a cold wind in their solid, secure house - there has been real parity of esteem from the nationalist and republican traditions in the last week.

[Jacob]

That's good to hear.

It also speaks to the level of comfort and confidence on that Nationalist side - I think - that they're able to be gracious about this.

[Sheilbh]

That's good to hear.

It also speaks to the level of comfort and confidence on that Nationalist side - I think - that they're able to be gracious about this.

Yeah and there is frustration from some within Sinn Fein over all this. But it speaks to their shift from an ideological Irish Republican party to something approaching constitutional nationalism like the SDLP.

As I say it's just mood and gestures - but I think they're important in politics, particularly in a province where symbols and shibboleths really matter.

[Josquius]

It's sensible from them really.
They know they're making inroads into traditionally unionist demographics. The more they can spread the message in a united Ireland you can still love the monarchy and we won't hastle you, the more they can nudge people away from vehement opposition.

[Admiral Yi]

I hope people don't wreck the funeral line with endless selfies.

What's a Samaritan Shelf?

[Sheilbh]

It's sensible from them really.
They know they're making inroads into traditionally unionist demographics. The more they can spread the message in a united Ireland you can still love the monarchy and we won't hastle you, the more they can nudge people away from vehement opposition.

They're not making in-roads into traditionally unionist communities. There's no swing vote from unionism to Sinn Fein and support for a united Ireland still hovers about 40% where it has for the last couple of decades.

Those who don't identify as unionist or nationalist tend to lean in favour of the union. A, perhaps unfair, reason would be that the unionist vote has declined particularly among liberal unionists and maybe some people from that tradition have stopped identifying with unionism as an identity, but still lean in favour. Another would be that they're quite cautious, so lean status quo on the constitutional issue.

I'd add that I think primarily because of Brexit but also the wider turn in the discourse to focus on empire and post-colonialism, that I think there's been a bit of an uptick in anti-British sentiment in the South. There's lots of comments about "the Brits" - which coincides with the rise of Sinn Fein as a political force in the South. I think if that trend continues it will harden unionist sentiment. Because it is a problem if you're making comments about "the Brits" and your political goal is unification with a province that includes the most British. I think there's comfort from unionists around Sinn Fein in the context of Northern Ireland, but if Sinn Fein were in the government in the South that's another matter.

Not least because what sort of settlement would it look like for unionists. I have an Irish friend who always asks this of other Irish people (who are almost all nationalists). What compromise on Irish identity since 1916 do they support to make a state that can include unionists? Changing the anthem? Joining the Commonwealth? A role for the royals? etc.

What's a Samaritan Shelf?

I thought they were from the US to be honest. They are a charity with helplines who provide support for people in emotional distress - the stereotype here is particularly with suicidal people but it's all sorts of emotional distress. I think all the volunteers are trained in, I suppose, basic counselling.

[The Brain]

What's a Samaritan Shelf?

I thought they were from the US to be honest. They are a charity with helplines who provide support for people in emotional distress - the stereotype here is particularly with suicidal people but it's all sorts of emotional distress. I think all the volunteers are trained in, I suppose, basic counselling.

Why did they pick that name? Do they belong to a group from whom you wouldn't expect charity?

[Sheilbh]

Why did they pick that name? Do they belong to a group from whom you wouldn't expect charity?

I think it's more for people to ask for help from people that won't pass them by, they'll listen.

[The Brain]

Why did they pick that name? Do they belong to a group from whom you wouldn't expect charity?

I think it's more for people to ask for help from people that won't pass them by, they'll listen.

Yes, but why the name Samaritans? I assume it has to do with the parable in the New Testament, but have they actually read it? It is known as the parable of the Good Samaritan for a reason.

[Jacob]

Yes, but why the name Samaritans? I assume it has to do with the parable in the New Testament, but have they actually read it? It is known as the parable of the Good Samaritan for a reason.

Sometimes when a phrase or term gets used over an extended period of time, the phrases end up abbreviated in various way.