Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Richard Hakluyt

Quote from: Josquius on March 20, 2022, 02:57:21 AMSo Boris Johnson has compared Ukraines resistance to Russia to... Brexit :bleeding:
Holy projection batman.


It probably went down well with the bunch of right-wing tossers he was addressing.....the tory party spring conference.

He doesn't seem to realise that , as he is PM, all his remarks are taken down and spread to the wider world  :hmm:

Sheilbh

I don't know if it did go down very well. Even Julia Hartley-Brewer said it was in bad taste - and if you've lost her... :ph34r:

To be honest I was more annoyed at his "Labour would raise the white flag to Putin" lines, which I think were absolutely disgraceful - especially given the consensus and support the government have benefited from on Ukraine (which Johnson's repeatedly acknowledged/thanked Starmer for).

Again, I don't think that'll go down very well with the public. There's no real benefit to Johnson from Ukraine so far in the polls and I think the public get that both parties (and the SNP and Lib Dems) are aligned. It just gives a hint of their strategy in the next election which will be as much as they can to tie Starmer as much to Corbyn/they've not really changed. They're going to try and re-run 2019 and it won't work.
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

I don't know. Ukraine has nicely put a stop to the partygate scandal. Moggs whole "stupid plebs worrying about parties whilst the ukraine situation shows how serious the world really is"
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Sheilbh

#19848
Quote from: Josquius on March 20, 2022, 08:27:12 AMI don't know. Ukraine has nicely put a stop to the partygate scandal. Moggs whole "stupid plebs worrying about parties whilst the ukraine situation shows how serious the world really is"
Yeah - it stabilised his position within the Tory party and it stopped MPs from moving forward with any attempt to remove him (though I expected that to happen after the May local elections anyway).

The polling is basically in the same place with the Tories aroudn 30-35% and Labour around the high 30s/low 40s. People approve of what Johnson's doing on Ukraine, they also think he's unsuitable to be PM and want him to resign - that hasn't shifted. There's no rally round the flag. I think part of that is that they know a Labour government would be doing the same stuff on weapons and the macro sanctions - they'd probably be better/more aligned to public opinion on sanctioning individuals and refugee policy.

In terms of Johnson's leadership, it's more of a holding pattern because there's no space for other stories really when the war in Ukraine is still happening - that won't last forever. And also there's no new news on partygate - at some point the police will make their decision and the Sue Gray report will come out. Also the leaker on the partygate story stopped before when a covid resurgence was dominating the headlines because it wouldn't land in the same way - I think the same is happening now.

Also even if the parties scandal does peter out - it's fundamentally about Johnson's personality which isn't going to change so there will be something else. I wouldn't be surprised if it's Lebedev, for example. And Tory MPs know it's always going to be something else which is what will motivate them to move against him.

I think that's why Number 10 have apparently been telling Tory MPs to prepare for a 2023 election (probably in autumn) is to focus minds. They basically have until the end of the summer recess to get rid of Johnson, or it'll be too close to an election - the Brown trap :lol:

Edit: In a way I think that might be the most dangerous space for a leader - most people think they're doing the right thing, but are giving zero credit because they've turned against them personally.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Via Stephen Bush - a few paragraphs that basically contain everything you need to understand to grasp British politics, from the Rutland & Stamford Mercury:
QuoteA new Green Party councillor who narrowly beat a Tory in a Rutland County Council by-election has spoken out against a proposed solar farm.

Rick Wilson was announced as the winner of yesterday's by-election for the Ryhall and Casterton ward and beat his Conservative opponent Richard Foster by just 13 votes. The seat was previously held by Tory Richard Coleman, who resigned in November.

Coun Wilson said he was "shellshocked by the result" but believes his clear opposition to the proposed Mallard Pass solar farm development and to the proposal for 650 homes at Quarry Farm helped him to victory.

The Greens, there - opposed to new railways, nuclear power and solar power :lol They are really tearing off the mask to reveal that they're just a cuddly "sustainable" version of middle class, property-owning class interest <_<
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

#19850
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2022, 07:44:35 AMThe Greens, there - opposed to new railways, nuclear power and solar power :lol They are really tearing off the mask to reveal that they're just a cuddly "sustainable" version of middle class, property-owning class interest <_<
:secret:
Not just in the UK.
Solar energy in the UK, considering the unflattering reputation of British weather, made me smile though.  :P

Richard Hakluyt

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2022, 07:44:35 AMVia Stephen Bush - a few paragraphs that basically contain everything you need to understand to grasp British politics, from the Rutland & Stamford Mercury:
QuoteA new Green Party councillor who narrowly beat a Tory in a Rutland County Council by-election has spoken out against a proposed solar farm.

Rick Wilson was announced as the winner of yesterday's by-election for the Ryhall and Casterton ward and beat his Conservative opponent Richard Foster by just 13 votes. The seat was previously held by Tory Richard Coleman, who resigned in November.

Coun Wilson said he was "shellshocked by the result" but believes his clear opposition to the proposed Mallard Pass solar farm development and to the proposal for 650 homes at Quarry Farm helped him to victory.

The Greens, there - opposed to new railways, nuclear power and solar power :lol They are really tearing off the mask to reveal that they're just a cuddly "sustainable" version of middle class, property-owning class interest <_<

Yeah, I really can't be bothered with them, at least in the context of British politics.

The dismissal of nuclear power in particular; they are as much use in dealing with climate change as a newspaper horoscope  :(

Grey Fox

Canada greens are right wingers in disguise that are only progressive if it stops economic development.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Josquius

This is an area where Switzerland seems to do well. They have socialist greens and Liberal greens in two seperate (well. 3 or 4 I think. At least one has its youth wing with its own list too) parties.

The English greens should rename themselves the green and pleasant land party.
Are the Scots much better? Must say I've not paid much attention. All I know is they're Pro independence.
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Sheilbh

The SNP have moved to more sensible positions on a few things in the last 5-6 years or so. I think they're still anti-nuclear but no longer want to prioritise decommissioning remaining plants. But they have moved to a pro-NATO position (largely since 2014 - and with the work of Stewart MacDonald MP who's been excellent an very close to Ukraine for the last 8 years).

The Scottish Greens are still anti-nuclear and anti-NATO and broadly I think they're pretty anti-development too. Or it's the same as all the English parties - in principle they support new public transport/renewables/housing at a national level but at a local level will always oppose it everywhere.

I just look with envy at Germany's Greens. Don't agree with them on nuclear but they just seem a far more credible party/agenda.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

#19855
Damning report into corruption in the Met - but surely not!? :o
QuoteDaniel Morgan murder: damning report condemns Met police
Official watchdog says force's ability to tackle corruption is 'fundamentally flawed'
Vikram Dodd Police and crime correspondent
Tue 22 Mar 2022 12.01 GMT
Last modified on Tue 22 Mar 2022 12.08 GMT

The Metropolitan police's ability to tackle corruption is "fundamentally flawed", the policing inspectorate has found in a damning report into the Daniel Morgan murder.

The report from Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services was ordered after an independent panel criticised the Met for failings over the Morgan murder, where corruption hampered the hunt for the killers of the private eye.

Morgan was found dead in 1987 in a pub car park in south London with an axe in his head. No one has been convicted of the murder.


The force was accused of "indifference", despite decades of promises. Thirty-five years on from the murder, the Met had still not learned all the lessons, the inspectorate found.

The inspectors found the Met:
Failed to properly supervise more than 100 recruits with criminal convictions or criminal connections, to lessen the risk they may pose. Those convictions include handling stolen goods, possession of drugs, assault and theft.
The Met does not know if those in highly sensitive posts, such as child protection, major crime investigation, and informant handling, are vetted to the right level.
More than 2,000 warrant cards issued to former officers who are now not entitled to hold them are unaccounted for.
Monitoring of IT systems, which helps identify potentially corrupt staff, remains weaker than it should be.
Hundreds of items such as drugs, cash and exhibits are missing, with the arrangements and policies for keeping them safe branded as "dire". In once case the security code for a store was written on its door at one police station.


Matt Parr, HM inspector of constabulary, said: "Corruption is almost certainly higher than the Met understands."

Parr added: "It is unacceptable that 35 years after Daniel Morgan's murder, the Metropolitan police has not done enough to ensure its failings from that investigation cannot be repeated. In fact, we found no evidence that someone, somewhere, had adopted the view that this must never happen again.


"We found substantial weaknesses in the Met's approach to tackling police corruption. The Met's apparent tolerance of these shortcomings suggests a degree of indifference to the risk of corruption.

"We have made several recommendations for change. If public confidence in the Metropolitan police is to be improved, they should be among the commissioner's highest priorities."

The findings from the inspectorate were so serious that several weeks ago the headlines findings were briefed to the home secretary, Met commissioner and London mayor.

The panel that looked into Morgan's murder, set up by the government, reported last year and found the Met to be institutionally corrupt. In part that was because the force was slow to hand over documents requested.

HMICFRS concluded the Met was not institutionally corrupt and any hampering of the inquiry was not deliberate. But it was critical.

The inspectorate said: "We concluded that, at least until recently, the MPS [Metropolitan Police Service] has often shown a reluctance to examine, admit and learn from past mistakes and failures."

"We concluded that the adverse matters .....bore the hallmarks of limited resources allocated to the maintenance of professional standards, professional incompetence, a lack of understanding of important concepts, poor management or genuine error, rather than dishonesty.

"We found no evidence of any deliberate or coordinated campaign to intentionally frustrate the panel's work. It follows that we would not describe the MPS as institutionally corrupt based upon the evidence we have seen."


The inspectorate said the Met had had enough warnings: "There are multiple serious areas of concern, including in relation to the ways in which the MPS responds to allegations of corruption, which must be addressed to secure public confidence in the MPS.

"It is essential that the MPS should be more open to criticism and prepared to change where necessary, including by implementing our recommendations. A further failure to do so (without good reason) may well justify the label of institutional corruption in due course."

Reports into potential failings that allowed Wayne Couzens to join the Met are expected later this year. While a serving Met officer, he used police powers to kidnap and murder Sarah Everard in March 2021.

Edit: If ever there's a need to scrap everything and start again it's surely the Met. At a least it feels likes the entire senior leadership team beyond just Dick need to go.
Let's bomb Russia!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2022, 10:31:53 AMI just look with envy at Germany's Greens. Don't agree with them on nuclear but they just seem a far more credible party/agenda.

 :lol:

UK Greens must be really bad then.

ulmont

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2022, 10:31:53 AMI just look with envy at Germany's Greens. Don't agree with them on nuclear but they just seem a far more credible party/agenda.

 :o I - admittedly from the US - always got the idea that Germany's Greens were the platonic ideal of a bad European Green Party.  If they're near the top of credibility/agenda...   :console:

Sheilbh

Oh weird - in my head they're the model of a Green Party that aspires to power and changing things rather than just existing as a receptacle for protest votes :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

I know they've the usual anti nuclear delusions but other than that what is wrong with the German greens? :unsure:
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