Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

The founder of OBON is a British Sikh and former copper called Kash Singh https://www.onebritainonenation.com/ceo-founder

It is hard to get a comprehensive picture but looking at search results the schools that have favoured this in the past are up North and have large south asian contingents in their pupil population.

It does look like he has done good work in the past but may not be aware of the full complexities of the UK outside urban North England 

[Josquius]

It's not stuff I'd say or how I'd go about it and I think it is very embarrassing but yeah it feels like his heart's in the right place and I feel a little sorry for him that he's set up this group he clearly believes for good reasons and is now being mercilessly mocked/called a fascist online

Does seem sort of weird. What exactly is the sort of fascism on display here? I would think a call for unity, even a very cringey one, would be the opposite of fascism. But maybe Tyr can enlighten me.

.
I was joking about the natural tendencies of kids towards the same imagery that appeals to fascists.
Specifically here the BRITAIN STRONK. UNITE THE WORLD UNDER ONE FLAG stuff.

[Sheilbh]

Does seem sort of weird. What exactly is the sort of fascism on display here? I would think a call for unity, even a very cringey one, would be the opposite of fascism. But maybe Tyr can enlighten me.

Well you know have kids sing about how great Britain is, "strong nation" stuff. This is why I feel bad for the guy because I really think he is well-meaning and probably really excited that yesterday was the day when the Department for Education were going to Tweet about his group and he'd get the publicity to go national - only for "Hitler Youth" to trend for 12 hours

In German we have saying: "Well meant does not mean well made."

Yeah - I feel that's very apt here.

I'm curious about the One Britain One Nation thing - are the Welsh and Scots and English generally considered separate nations within the UK or what would be the usual terminology?

Yeah. The UK is considered a nation of nations. So England, Wales and Scotland are nations, combined to make another nation. This was actually particularly awkward because the "one Britain, one nation" day is on 25th of June, but Scottish schools are actually on holiday by then

Depends on how you are using the term nation, which is a tricky word. I mean in the US we are all one nation but we sure as fuck are not one ethnic group or culture or anything.

In the UK context nation/nationality does not mean ethnic group or culture. It has more of that overtone for Englishness/Britishness, but even there that's declining. None of them are ethnic identifiers, they're civic nationalities like Irishness or Frenchness.

Obviously I'm sure there are some mouth-breathing racists who do view them in that way, but I mean in general.

It is hard to get a comprehensive picture but looking at search results the schools that have favoured this in the past are up North and have large south asian contingents in their pupil population.

It does look like he has done good work in the past but may not be aware of the full complexities of the UK outside urban North England

Or the internet's propensity to take the piss.

Given he's from Bradford, which had dreadful race riots, and their first event was in 2013 - I suspect he wanted to encourage togetherness across communities and really loved the feeling in the country during the Olympics and wanted to try and re-capture that. It then looks like he did that again after 2016 because, again, there was a lot of divisiveness around. And in terms of what they're saying - it's not a million miles away from the More In Common/Jo Cox Foundation.

But yeah I don't think he'd fully realised how it would look outside of the West Yorkshire community where he's clearly a big figure who does a lot with his retirement

[Sheilbh]

So lots of polling on the 5th anniversary of the Brexit vote. Headline seems to be that basically it's still 50/50 and only about 10% of people have changed their mind - I would note this is the point that on demographics alone when Remain should have a lead.

The one I found most striking was the poll done by Ipsos Mori about the different Brexit "tribes" and the sort of cultural divides. The thing that's most striking about this is how far Liberal Remainers are from average but also from everyone else

[Josquius]

Are they trying to say entrepreneurial young is a brexit group here or...? Young middle Britain isn't clear either.

And if they're liberal remainers how come they're far left economically? That doesn't make sense.


On the demographics and brexit, I think its important to consider the factor of those who didn't support it but have a misplaced sense that its only right the tories be allowed to do whatever they want with it.
Also helps that people are burned out on that shit and the media have spun it that it went on so long and is so awful purely due to remainers.

[The Larch]

The one I found most striking was the poll done by Ipsos Mori about the different Brexit "tribes" and the sort of cultural divides. The thing that's most striking about this is how far Liberal Remainers are from average but also from everyone else

Given than basically everyone but them are either centrists of right wingers I'd feel some pity for them, seeing how lonely they are on the left.

[Sheilbh]

Are they trying to say entrepreneurial young is a brexit group here or...? Young middle Britain isn't clear either.

And if they're liberal remainers how come they're far left economically? That doesn't make sense.

Yeah - they go into the description in their full report but entrepreneurial young leans Leave and young middle Britain is brodly pro-Remain:


A broad breakdown from Kelly Beaver at Ipsos Mori:

Kelly Beaver
@KellyIpsosMORI
4h
NEW: 5 years on from the Brexit vote @IpsosMORI
has looked at the many tribes of Britain. From Traditionalist Leavers to Liberal Remainers we've looked at how these 7 groups make up Brexit Britain, see the tribes below and read the report here https://ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/five-years-brexit-and-forces-underlying-it-continues-shape-public-opinion
Liberal Remainers the most opposed to Brexit and most strongly identify with Remain. They are mostly graduates and tend to have higher income
Anxious Remainers are also opposed to Brexit, but are much less culturally liberal and around half can see some positive impact of Brexit
The young middle Britain group leans towards Remain and tends to have slightly more liberal views, but overall they don't have a strong Brexit identity. They tend to be younger, working Britons with an average income, and are slightly more likely to be women
The politically disengaged group is least engaged with Brexit, with only a minority strongly identifying with either side. They tend to have lower income and social grade, and are also more likely to be women
The entrepreneurial young are a smaller group of mostly young working people (more likely to be men) who do not strongly identify with either side on Brexit but economically lean right-wing
Globalist Leavers are strongly Leave but are more culturally liberal, pro-globalisation and economically right-wing
Traditionalist Leavers are the most pro-Brexit group and the most culturally conservative. They are mostly non-graduates and tend to be older (and retired), lower income and living in the North and Midlands

Given than basically everyone but them are either centrists of right wingers I'd feel some pity for them, seeing how lonely they are on the left.

Yeah I think particularly unfortunate for them is that I do think their voice is quite strong in the media - not least because the Guardian is the only non-paywalled paper, so everyone I know basically only reads it - and on social media. So their isolation/fringeness on some issues I think often comes as a surprise.

And of course it is worth noting that this is how they are self-identifying rather than based on their actual views. So the average Brit who sees themself as centrist, for example, is likely to support nationalisation of the railways and infrastructure companies etc.

[alfred russel]

What does that mean? 2% of "Traditionalist Leavers" very or fairly strongly identify as remain?

[Josquius]

So basically they're doing the populist right's stupid thing and calling being economically left wing 'liberal'
Bloody Americanisation.

[Sheilbh]

So basically they're doing the populist right's stupid thing and calling being economically left wing 'liberal'
Bloody Americanisation.

No - it's two axes - Liberal-Conservative socialy v Left-Right economically.

What does that mean? 2% of "Traditionalist Leavers" very or fairly strongly identify as remain?

The wider point is that Leave or Remain are stronger political identifications than parties. So 2% of Traditionalist Leavers actually identify with Remain (possibly mind changers or just nonsense ).

And it's part of a wider story of UK politics moving from broad class-based parties being the primary divide to culture - hence why education and age matter so much (and are now stronger predictors of vote than job or class).

[The Larch]

(possibly mind changers or just nonsense ).

1-2% of all people polled have messing up with the pollsters and their results as their raison d-etre. 

[garbon]

(possibly mind changers or just nonsense ).

1-2% of all people polled have messing up with the pollsters and their results as their raison d-etre. 

As a market researcher, I would also guess that many people just don't pay that much attention to rating scales in online surveys. You always expect some noise.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah those were my guesses of it meaning nothing

Though I've mentioned before there is that voter bot that just pumps out details of voters who spoke to the British Electoral Survey and there are some very eccentric people out there

[Josquius]

There's also those who just want to fuck with the pollsters.
I'd imagine a certain brand of brexiter particularly falls into this.

[Tamas]

So basically they're doing the populist right's stupid thing and calling being economically left wing 'liberal'
Bloody Americanisation.

Well, hello, liberal has been the "economically wrong/evil" marker for both the far right and the far left for quite a while now.