Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Latest Times scoop on the Cameron-Greensill scandal:

David Cameron e-mailed No10 aide saying it was "nuts" to exclude Greensill from Covid loans

He said: "What we need most is for Rishi to have a good look at this and ask officials to find a way of making it work"

Greensill didn't get any covid loans but Cameron also arranged a meeting with Hancock (a former Osborne loyalist) and I believe Greensill did get some work for the NHS/Health Department - I feel like there's more to come on this.

[Josquius]

But that's kind of it. After Robert the Bruce and the fight against Edward II they kind of ignore the subsequent few hundred years as an independent kingdom. Perhaps just because it was particularly chaotic and full of regicide.

And if you go before pre-Margaret that won't do because England and Scotland were largely friendly prior to that.

Though we would like Edinburgh back.

[Zanza]

MPs to spend seven and a half hours giving tributes to Prince Philip, longer than scrutiny for final Brexit deal
Discussion of riots in Northern Ireland and Covid regulation changes will wait for another day

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-philip-mps-tributes-brexit-deal-hours-b1830004.html

Priorities... 

[Josquius]

Jesus.
I've been eye rolling and critical of all the "Look how edgy and anti monarchy I am by insulting the guy who just died!" stuff going around. But that's just ridiculous.

[The Larch]

MPs to spend seven and a half hours giving tributes to Prince Philip, longer than scrutiny for final Brexit deal
Discussion of riots in Northern Ireland and Covid regulation changes will wait for another day

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-philip-mps-tributes-brexit-deal-hours-b1830004.html

Priorities... 

I didn't want to say anything in the other thread as I thought it'd be in bad taste to mention it there, and I don't think it was the guy's fault, but the whole official mourning for Prince Phillip seems to be absurdly over the top. I read somewhere that there won't be any government activity (or maybe it was parlamentary activity) for a whole week due to official mourning. If they do that for the Prince, who had no real power or authority, what will be done for the Queen when her time comes? A whole month?

[Tamas]

MPs to spend seven and a half hours giving tributes to Prince Philip, longer than scrutiny for final Brexit deal
Discussion of riots in Northern Ireland and Covid regulation changes will wait for another day

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-philip-mps-tributes-brexit-deal-hours-b1830004.html

Priorities... 

I didn't want to say anything in the other thread as I thought it'd be in bad taste to mention it there, and I don't think it was the guy's fault, but the whole official mourning for Prince Phillip seems to be absurdly over the top. I read somewhere that there won't be any government activity (or maybe it was parlamentary activity) for a whole week due to official mourning. If they do that for the Prince, who had no real power or authority, what will be done for the Queen when her time comes? A whole month?

Let's hope so, things might improve markedly during that time!

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm fairly certain that Prince Phillip would agree with you, he didn't like "fuss". No doubt the Tories are hoping that some left-wing labour MP will put his foot in it during the orgy of sycophancy plus it is all good distraction from the dire state of the country.

[Josquius]

I'm fairly certain that Prince Phillip would agree with you, he didn't like "fuss". No doubt the Tories are hoping that some left-wing labour MP will put his foot in it during the orgy of sycophancy plus it is all good distraction from the dire state of the country.

Yes... The Tories are really licking their lips at this.
I have seen quite a lot of "OMG look how edgy I am. Philip was a horrible racist. Down with the monarchy. Who cares that he is dead." articles around that will be a huge help to the culture warriors.

[Tamas]

I'm fairly certain that Prince Phillip would agree with you, he didn't like "fuss". No doubt the Tories are hoping that some left-wing labour MP will put his foot in it during the orgy of sycophancy plus it is all good distraction from the dire state of the country.

Yes... The Tories are really licking their lips at this.
I have seen quite a lot of "OMG look how edgy I am. Philip was a horrible racist. Down with the monarchy. Who cares that he is dead." articles around that will be a huge help to the culture warriors.

Not sure how much help though. I read the BBC had to post a front-page link to receive complaints over the change of TV schedule due to the death, with a record number of people pissed off that their regular scheduled shitty programming was skipped.

I suspect it's one of those societal things were nobody really cares but most everyone are afraid to admit so.

[Sheilbh]

I'm fairly certain that Prince Phillip would agree with you, he didn't like "fuss". No doubt the Tories are hoping that some left-wing labour MP will put his foot in it during the orgy of sycophancy plus it is all good distraction from the dire state of the country.

I know the government normally chooses timing etc, but I was under the impression this was set by the Speaker (and admittedly Lindsay Hoyle is very old school patriotic, monarchist Labour)?

I have seen quite a lot of "OMG look how edgy I am. Philip was a horrible racist. Down with the monarchy. Who cares that he is dead." articles around that will be a huge help to the culture warriors.

They feed off each other. It's a cycle. I've seen both that and then the counter-reaction.

Not sure how much help though. I read the BBC had to post a front-page link to receive complaints over the change of TV schedule due to the death, with a record number of people pissed off that their regular scheduled shitty programming was skipped.

I suspect it's one of those societal things were nobody really cares but most everyone are afraid to admit so.

I mentioned in the other thread the reason the BBC coverage has been so over the top is because they got thousands of complaints about being too casual about the death of the Queen Mum. Basically I think the BBC are fucked whatever they do.

I also think a lot of what we're seeing right now is people in various institutions taking the opportunity to have a dress rehearsal.

I didn't want to say anything in the other thread as I thought it'd be in bad taste to mention it there, and I don't think it was the guy's fault, but the whole official mourning for Prince Phillip seems to be absurdly over the top. I read somewhere that there won't be any government activity (or maybe it was parlamentary activity) for a whole week due to official mourning. If they do that for the Prince, who had no real power or authority, what will be done for the Queen when her time comes? A whole month?

I think Parliament has been recalled so they were already in recess. Scottish Parliament and Senedd have also been recalled as they're in the middle of election campaigns.

It's government activity but it's more the political stuff. It's basically lie purdah before an election - so we are being run by the civil service until the funeral (on Saturday). Apart from covid related stuff, ministers have to run any announcements they want to make past the civil service. During an election it's to stop abuse of power - so unless something is obviously in the national interest (e.g. responding to a crisis) ministers can't go around announcing expensive new projects in marginal constituencies. Obviously they can do that at any point in the 4 years between elections

Here I think it's more respect/good taste to avoid ministers making the news or, with the current government the very real risk, that one of them (my money would be on Gavin Williamson) does something hideously tasteless to associate themselves with Prince Philip.

Edit: An example of something that has been launched - an investigation into David Cameron's contacts with ministers and officials - the Cabinet Office is looking into it.

[Tamas]

Why isn't the police looking into Cameron's thing, though?

[Sheilbh]

I think they are, but on the face of it he didn't break the law (which his government passed).

There's a ban on lobbying by ministers for two years after they leave office and if they want to lobby as professional lobbyists with clients they need to register, unless they're lobbying for their employer. Cameron waited two years and was employed by Greensill.

There might be more interest in Cameron's time in office as well and there's lots of questions about that. But I think there's also a lot of questions about the late Jeremy Heywood who was the head of the civil service at the time and who made the introduction of Greensill into government.

[garbon]

I'm fairly certain that Prince Phillip would agree with you, he didn't like "fuss". No doubt the Tories are hoping that some left-wing labour MP will put his foot in it during the orgy of sycophancy plus it is all good distraction from the dire state of the country.

Yes... The Tories are really licking their lips at this.
I have seen quite a lot of "OMG look how edgy I am. Philip was a horrible racist. Down with the monarchy. Who cares that he is dead." articles around that will be a huge help to the culture warriors.

Not sure how much help though. I read the BBC had to post a front-page link to receive complaints over the change of TV schedule due to the death, with a record number of people pissed off that their regular scheduled shitty programming was skipped.

I suspect it's one of those societal things were nobody really cares but most everyone are afraid to admit so.

Of course there was also a group angry the BBC had set up a process for letting people complain...

[Sheilbh]

Of course there was also a group angry the BBC had set up a process for letting people complain...

As I say they all feed on each other - and I genuinely think they might not know who started x round of this row.

Guardian piece on status of Cameron investigation. Cameron and Osborne are the two politicians I've hated most and it is strangely reassuring to discover that as well as being useless, they're also corrupt

Greensill scandal: government orders inquiry into Cameron lobbying
Independent investigation launched into former PM's lobbying for now-collapsed firm
Jessica Elgot Deputy political editor
@jessicaelgot
Mon 12 Apr 2021 13.23 BST

The government is to a launch an independent investigation into former prime minister David Cameron's lobbying for the now-collapsed Greensill and the role of the scandal-hit financier Lex Greensill in government.

The independent review, commissioned by Boris Johnson, will be led by the legal expert Nigel Boardman, a non-executive board member of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

It will look at the development and use of supply chain finance, offered by Greensill, and its associated activities in government, and the role Greensill played in those.

Johnson's spokesman said there was "significant interest in this matter, so the PM has called for the review to ensure government is completely transparent about such activities, and that the public can see for themselves if good value was secured for taxpayers money".

It is understood the review will look at Cameron's lobbying after his time in government, with No 10 saying the inquiry "will also look at how contracts were secured and how business representatives engaged with government".

Downing Street would not set out a timescale but said it would be expected to report relatively quickly. "The prime minister wants this to be done thoroughly and he wanted to be done promptly so you can expect a prompt return on this," his spokesman said.

Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP who chairs the powerful liaison committee of MPs, had called for an immediate inquiry into Greensill's influence in government during the Cameron administration, when he was brought in as an adviser, as well as changes to the ministers' code of conduct to force them to declare when they have conversations about possible employment after their time in government.

Jenkin said the issue should be looked at immediately by the new advisor on ministerial interests. Johnson is yet to replace Alex Allan, who quit before Christmas after the prime minister backed the home secretary, Priti Patel, despite a highly critical report into bullying.

The former prime minister Gordon Brown has said lobbying rules should be tightened, as Labour called for Cameron to answer questions from MPs.

Brown said the spectacle of former prime ministers lobbying for private companies for personal gain "simply brings public service into disrepute".

On Sunday, Cameron broke his month-long silence after a series of damaging stories about his lobbying efforts on behalf of Greensill, which included messages to the chancellor, two junior ministers, senior civil servants and a No 10 special adviser.

He said he had reflected on his conduct and accepted he should have communicated with the government "through only the most formal of channels", and said there were "important lessons" to be learned.

Labour said there were "many serious questions" unanswered in his 1,700-word statement and demanded Cameron address them before parliament.

Brown suggested legislation banning high-profile politicians from such lobbying work for five years if the existing rules could not be made to work.

"For me there are principles about public service: it cannot ever become a platform for private gain," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "Ministers must never be lobbying – former ministers, prime ministers, must never be lobbying for commercial purposes. Current ministers should not be entertaining such lobbying.

"If we can't succeed in achieving this stopping by the sort of flexibility of the rules, we are going to have to pass laws to make sure that at least for, say, five years, no serving or former prime minister or minister is ever lobbying for any commercial purpose within government."

The shadow chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, Rachel Reeves, said: "Many serious questions remain unanswered and it is crucial that the former prime minister appears before parliament so that all the information is brought to light. Transparency and accountability are crucial and that requires the utmost openness from government to establish the full facts behind this scandal."

Cameron repeatedly texted the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, asking him to grant Greensill Capital access to the Bank of England's Covid corporate financing facility (CCFF). Texts released last week show Sunak telling Cameron he had "pushed the team to explore an alternative with the Bank that might work". There was also a call between the pair.

While access to the CCFF was ultimately rebuffed, the National Audit Office is considering a request to investigate how Greensill Capital was later accredited to the coronavirus large business interruption loan scheme (CLBILS), handing it the ability to access government-backed loans of up to £50m.

Cameron said that despite his efforts it was clear the government did not wish to take up his proposals. "Ultimately, the outcome of the discussions I encouraged about how Greensill's proposals might be included in the government's CCFF initiative – and help in the wake of the coronavirus crisis – was that they were not taken up," he said.

"So, I complied with the rules and my interventions did not lead to a change in the government's approach to the CCFF."

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, is also under mounting pressure to explain a meeting with Greensill, set up by Cameron who brought the company founder along with him to a "private drink", according to the Sunday Times. There they are said to have lobbied Hancock to introduce a payment scheme that was later brought in for NHS staff.

In his statement, Cameron confirmed he met Saudi Arabia's crown prince during a business trip with Greensill in January 2020, a little over a year after the murder of the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

"While in Saudi Arabia I took the opportunity to raise concerns about human rights, as I always did when meeting the Saudi leadership when I was prime minister," he said.

In February this year, US intelligence concluded that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was likely to have approved an operation to kill or capture Khashoggi at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.

[Sheilbh]

Oh no - Guardian reporting that Shirley Williams has died

RIP.