Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Syt

I liked these report quotes:



"Minorities were less uppity in the past; also, maybe their cultures and attitudes are shit."
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Tamas

Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2021, 09:21:34 AM
I liked these report quotes:



"Minorities were less uppity in the past; also, maybe their cultures and attitudes are shit."

OMG WTF  :lol: the last bit especially. Holy crap.


So, in summary: "Institution report determines there is no institutional racism, indications to the contrary are due to minority attitudes".

This whole report either shows just how un-self conscious its writers are (which is a big problem in itself) or it is in fact a deliberate effort to escalate the culture war. I am only not writing racial war because I hope a fair amount of the white majority will recognise this report for the farce it is.

Admiral Yi

Neither of those are very good characterizations.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Syt on March 31, 2021, 09:21:34 AM
I liked these report quotes:



"Minorities were less uppity in the past; also, maybe their cultures and attitudes are shit."

question is: is what is quoted untrue?
People in general are much more vocal towards certain kinds of authority (and totally passive towards other kinds) than they were a few decades ago. For good or ill
And not all cultures are equal or as conductive to generating what is considered to be success. And I'll be generous here and say that goes equally so for autochtonous subcultures.

And lets be honest: the authoritarian wave of woke and cancel that's infecting society seems to building on exactly that: blaming others for whatever goes wrong so one doesn't have to take any responsability for one's actions whatsoever.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on March 31, 2021, 09:55:45 AM
OMG WTF  :lol: the last bit especially. Holy crap.
I think the second paragraph is bullshit. I think the first is generational. Most of the author's reports are in their 50s or 60s - and they have seen a huge shift in public opinion and practices in their lifetime and often with them involved in causing that shift. But I think younger people want full and real equality - as is right - and they want it now. So things have simultaneously got a lot better and people's expectations (rightly) got a lot higher.

I thought Sunder Katwala's piece on this was quite good:
QuoteIs Britain racist? This binary question is unhelpful and obstructs real progress
Britain has made progress on race – but expectations have risen faster. So finding the common ground is now more important than widening divisions
Sunder Katwala
@britishfuture
2 hours ago

The pattern of opportunity and disadvantage in Britain has never been more complex. Eight million ethnic minority Britons have very different experiences – half of us were born here, to parents and grandparents who were migrants. By education, social class and place, there are different experiences of opportunity and barriers. So dissatisfaction with the "Bame" shorthand, which lumps all of that together, has turned out to be one thing on which most people have agreed.

The Sewell Commission consists of a group of ethnic minority professionals, often with personal experience of the opening-up of new opportunities that were available to the first British-born generation, but not to their parents. Yet they were convened by the prime minister because of the challenge, from the next generation, for that progress to speed up.


There is some attempt to strike a balance. The commission's report concludes with a vote of thanks to Black Lives Matter, saying that "we owe the many young people behind that movement a debt of gratitude for focusing our attention once again on these issues". Yet the same report argues that "you do not pass on the baton of progress by cleaving to a fatalistic account that insists nothing has changed".

However the balance of that message may have gone down, any attempt to deliver it got rather lost in the media briefings which preceded the report's publication this morning.  Beginning another round of the national debate about race, without the report that we are debating, was a mistake – a recipe for confirmation bias. So we have heard, once again, as we so often do, that the government is in denial about the existence of racism and discrimination in Britain – or that its critics are blind to the progress that has been made over the years.

The commission has been challenged for being in denial about "institutional racism", partly due to the past statements of its chair. Yet the commission report itself endorses the Macpherson definition – while calling for more care in how to apply it, because not all disparities are evidence of discrimination. The Windrush scandal is a clear example of when the term is justified.

By lived experience, the commission members are inclined to think of the glass as three-quarters full. They can marshal some good evidence that it is probably half-full at least, but the evidence they present also sets out why there is still more to do on all fronts.

Education is a story of success for most ethnic minority groups, with a need for support for black and white working-class boys who risk being left behind, and issues about the university experience for some minority groups.

There are positive signs, too, of convergence in pay and progression once people are in the workplace – but gaps in employment rates remain. The commission says the evidence clearly confirms that unconscious bias matters. Those with an ethnic minority name need to apply for more jobs, with the same CV, to get interviews. But it is concerned that companies can respond by sending everybody on unconscious bias training, to tick that box, without bothering to invest in evaluating what works and what does not.

It also sees what it terms "affinity bias" – "people like us" syndrome – as a major cause of the lack of diversity in boardrooms. The report refers to the "snowy white peaks" where progress has been much slower than in national politics. The report rather pulls its punches on accelerating change here. One-third of NHS Trusts and FTSE 350 boardrooms are all white. The commission is right to say that one person at the top table is not a substitute for a strategy – but it missed an opportunity to show how recent rapid progress on gender could be emulated as part of a sustained approach.


The report sees more challenges on crime, policing and justice. The commission sets out just how far every force is from reflecting the communities it serves, in its recruitment and retention. The report recognises that Black British mistrust in the police is not just a legacy of the past but also linked to the experience of Stop and Search disparities today. A step-change in community engagement is clearly needed.

On health, there is a detailed account of the nuance. The stark disparities in Black deaths in childbirth and the scale of disparities in mental health services are very clear. A new Office of Health Inequalities is proposed, along with practical challenges of stronger engagement with minority citizens in research.

Does this mixed record of incomplete progress on race make Britain a beacon for other white majority countries? Up to a point, yes. No other European society has put as much energy into race and tackling discrimination in national politics, public policy and institutions. Few would think that there are no ethnic disparities in the impact of the Covid pandemic in Belgium and France, yet that remains an anecdotal debate because the data is not even collected. Here, the pandemic has illuminated those disparities, but that can hardly be cause for self-congratulation.

And if a Manchester graduate worries that their ethnic-sounding surname will mean fewer job interviews than a white classmate with the same CV, why should they feel lucky that the odds might be worse in Milan or Marseille? Being told that we are top of this not-very-competitive anti-racism league rather misses the point.

Nor is their test whether they will face fewer barriers than their parents or grandparents did in the middle of the last century. Rather, there is a rightful, impatient expectation that the pledge of equal opportunities in Britain must now be redeemed in full.

Britain has made progress on race – but expectations have risen faster. So finding the common ground on race across the generations depends on transcending this binary "is Britain racist?" debate. It can be useful to recognise the progress we have made – but the challenge for public policy should be to focus on what still needs to change.


Sunder Katwala is director of British Future, an independent, non-partisan thinktank and registered charity, engaging people's hopes and fears about integration and immigration, identity and race
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

Excellent piece by Duncan Weldon in the Economist:
QuoteThe truth behind the Tories' northern strongholds
Look beyond the post-industrial misery. Comfortable suburbs are the source of the party's newfound support
Britain
Apr 3rd 2021 edition
Apr 3rd 2021


CRAMLINGTON AND PEGSWOOD

MICHAEL FINN, the design director of Barratt Developments, Britain's biggest home builder, does not like the term "estates". It sounds "very 1960s and very concrete", he says. "We build places." That is not the only change. Barratt homes come with more storage space than they used to, he explains, as people simply own more stuff. They are fitted with heating systems controlled by a mobile phone and lots of plug sockets for gadgets. Kitchens with serving-hatches are long gone; now families cook in an open-plan room, with French doors leading to the garden. On a Sunday afternoon the cul-de-sacs of Pegswood, a village that is home to one such "place", are filled with children playing. The back gardens contain trampolines and football nets; the garages contain gyms; the driveways contain Kia Sportages, Nissan Qashqais and other mid-range SUVs.

Political safarists seeking to understand Boris Johnson's government often head to Blyth in Northumberland, ten miles from Pegswood. In December 2019 the town voted Conservative for the first time since the 1930s. Boris Johnson flipped four dozen more seats across Wales, the Midlands and the north of England, granting him a big majority and unbuckling the Labour Party from its former heartlands. The so-called "Red Wall" they comprise has become a synonym for towns fallen on hard times and a working class "left behind" by a metropolitan elite, personified by Labour's Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Brexit warriors. Politicians from all parties scramble for remedies to these problems, with residents set to deliver their judgment at local elections in May.

But the dilapidated high streets of former industrial towns, which are sometimes compared to the American rustbelt, are only half the story of Mr Johnson's new domain. For they are often surrounded by gleaming new suburbs: a British counterpart to the American dream, where a couple on a modest income can own a home and two cars and raise a family. "The Tories didn't win the poorest bits of England," says a Labour shadow cabinet member. "They took a load of places where, frankly, life is pretty good, and it is more surprising that they were still voting Labour before."

As young professionals priced out of big cities are well aware, Britain does not build enough homes. But some parts of the country have done better than others. The north and the Midlands have accounted for a rising share of housing investment over the past two decades, with big builders such as Barratt, Persimmon and Taylor Wimpey responsible for much of the work. The drive from Pegswood to Cramlington, a nearby village, passes seven developments, complete and in progress, advertised by yellow signs at each roundabout.

These signs also herald a political transformation. The south-east of Northumberland was coal country, and voted Labour. Although Pegswood's own colliery closed in 1968, mining remained the main source of local employment until the early 1990s. But in local elections in 2017 the Conservatives took control of the county council. At the general election two years later, as well as taking Blyth Valley, which encompasses Cramlington, they cut Labour's majority from over 10,000 to under 900 in Wansbeck, which encompasses Pegswood.

The constituencies that make up the "Red Wall" are poorer than the rest of Britain, and as elsewhere, productivity and wage growth have been weak. But money goes a lot further here: these seats have some of the lowest housing costs in the country, and a greater share of home owners (see chart). The pit at Pegswood is now a park, adjoined by new suburbs, and three-bedroom homes at the half-constructed development start at just £194,995 ($268,176). They can be bought with a 5% deposit thanks to "Help to Buy", a government subsidy scheme.

In Cramlington, Richard, who works in sales, earns around £28,000 a year and his partner, a part-time administrative assistant, earns £12,000. That is enough for a four-bed house and two cars. "If I'd moved to London and got a graduate job, I'd probably be renting a shitty flat and I doubt I'd have two kids," he says.

The Conservative Party has long believed its success lies in home ownership. Margaret Thatcher was a friend of Lawrie Barratt, Barratt's founder, and moved to one of his homes after leaving office. Robert Hayward, a Conservative peer and psephologist, argues that developments like those found in Northumberland have played an underappreciated role in British politics. David Cameron's majority, he reckons, was won on the back of seats filled with such places across Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire. Similar areas in the Midlands and the North—where mines and factories have been replaced by business parks, light industry and Amazon delivery hubs—swung Tory in the decade that followed. Mr Johnson recently angered office workers by suggesting they have been slacking while working from home during the pandemic, but many residents in Cramlington share that suspicion. "It's not a real job if you can do it in your pyjamas," says one home owner.

Both parties are hunting for big ideas that will allow them to hold (or win back) these seats. They include "levelling up" the British economy, delivering the opportunities of post-Brexit "global Britain" and unleashing a culture war over statues and flags. Yet Barratt residents have less lofty concerns. Lord Hayward says the typical inhabitant works in the private sector and relies on state services, like schools and hospitals, but not state welfare. Education funding is one of the few bits of national politics that residents in Cramlington bring up on the doorstep; Mr Johnson immediately increased it on becoming prime minister in 2019.

Motoring matters, too. Voters in the "Red Wall" are more likely to commute by car than anywhere else in Britain (see chart). The new developments have sprung up along motorways. Most homes come with at least two car-parking spaces, although families with teenagers may own three or four. All this helps explain why fuel duty has been frozen for a decade, to the dismay of environmental campaigners and Treasury officials.

There is an egalitarianism to Barratt Britain. Accountants, teachers, sales reps, plasterers and driving instructors live on the same street, and the smaller choice of pubs and restaurants means they socialise together, too. As long as mortgages remain affordable and petrol is cheap, it is not a place that worries much about politics. That is a boon for the government, and a problem for Labour. "When you knock on the door of a big new house," asks a shadow minister, "how do you tell the people living there that the country is going wrong?" ■


And a map of Barratt developments since 2010:


Couple of thoughts that strike me - isn't this what happened to Essex in the 80s when it moved from working class East Londoners to pretty safely Tory area? Also did Tony Blair and all the re-positioning matter - or was it just that millions of people ended up in negative equity after Black Wednesday (and is that what it'll take for the Tories to lose again :ph34r:)?
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

A quick, unreflected upon thought: is this the long awaited fruit of Thatcher's ownership revolution?

Sheilbh

That happened under Thatcher - she sold 1.5 million council flats/houses. Major sold another million.

And the terms of the original right to buy was:
QuoteOffering tenants who had lived in their home for up to three years a 33% discount on the market value of their house.
    Increasing in stages up to 50% for a tenancy of 20 years.
    The opportunity to put down a £100 deposit, stalling the sale for two years, then buying at the earlier value.
    Guaranteed 100% mortgages available from the local authority.

Some of those properties are now worth over a million (obviously not all of them).

Arguably this is the fruit of Osborne's help to buy/support for new builds.
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

#15578
This doesn't match the data analysing the election I've seen elsewhere.
The places where the working class hold strong tended to remain labour, its those that have rotted and greyed which flipped.
There definitely are well to do bits up here that tend tory. But that's nothing new, they have done for a long while. Quite frustratingly the lib dems often do well in those seats too, so much so they would easily beat the tories if combined with the Labour vote.

Interesting bit in there about petrol being cheap though... There is a tendency for horrid new towns such as Cramlington to have very little societal cohesion which would lead to toryness setting in. Incidentally this same trend also tends to happen in those towns that have fallen out of the working class. The holds keep their railway station and town centre.

When I was house hunting I actually briefly considered Cramlington but the having the drive absolutely everywhere factor killed that for me (it has a station but in a crap place with awful service).
██████
██████
██████

Zanza

Is the photo in the article supposed to show recently built houses? If someone had asked me, I would have guessed that's renovated 1960s houses or so. If those are the new houses, the difference in architecture to here is striking.

Would the 40k GBP the couple in the article earns be net or gross? If it is gross, how much would it roughly be after tax etc.?

Richard Hakluyt

Best use a salary calculator https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

The person on £12k would take home £11.7k and the one on £28k would take home £22.7k


Sheilbh

Quote from: Zanza on April 01, 2021, 12:48:29 AM
Is the photo in the article supposed to show recently built houses? If someone had asked me, I would have guessed that's renovated 1960s houses or so. If those are the new houses, the difference in architecture to here is striking.
Yeah those are new builds. Though I think Barratt have different models and styles for different regions - so there's a Barratt "place" near the village my parents live in and the houses are very different. Also more solar panels - but that's in the South-West v North-East.

I low-key love sixties suburbia (for families, obviously, not urban homosexuals) but it's a little different. This is what I think of as 60s houses in England - I think it'll come back into fashion:




I lived in a place that sort of style when I was a kid and we moved back to England.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

The middle one is terrible, the other two I could accept given the realities.

Josquius

Yeah, flat roofs are horrid. My parent's house is a flat roof and I'd never buy one. Causes so many unnecessary problems.

The bottom one is quite nice albeit on the small side.
██████
██████
██████

celedhring

They don't look too appealing to me but I vastly prefer them to the semi-detached nightmare of Spain's boom years.