Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Threviel]

I think I quite deserved that one. I formulated myself badly and I can see why you got mad. It probably didn't help that I responded with nasty characterisation. Sorry 'bout that.

To be less antagonistic:

Sweden has a lot in common with the UK with regards to the EU. Both countries have a generally critical view with large parts of the population wanting to leave. Both countries opted out of the Euro and both countries are often against further integration. In the UK Sweden loses the "great power" most closely aligned to it. For Sweden it is a loss and it lessens our power to influence.

Sweden also has one of the most open bureaucracies in the EU. All paperwork, unless personal or national security demands it, are for example public. We have very low corruption and we want to keep it that way. I can't really find any good real numbers on corruption, but from what I can see it seems I was unduly harsh on Spain.

Now, I don't want the Italian, Greek or Romanian style bureaucracies taking over the EU. I like the open, quite corruption free style that we have in Sweden. I also don't want a quick forced integration, that might result in a nasty Swexit.

The EU doesn't do quick and it doesn't force integration. I'm not sure where you get your weird ethnic views from either.

Man, did I do weird ethnic thing? Sorry about that, I was only thinking about the political landscapes and the respective bureaucratic cultures. I must be formulating myself far worse in writing then in my head. Except that siesta insult, that was not nice.

[mongers]

897 hours to go. 

[Josquius]

A theory on this independent group.
Note they're making every effort not to become a new political party. They're being very clear that they are an independent group. They are funnelling their funding through a company rather than an official party (which is leading to lots of stupid conspiracy theories about it being an attempt to hide evil foreign donations, Jews! Jews!).

Also note that its a steady trickle who are joining.
First that Labour bunch, which led to some in hindsight hilarious comments from Tories about it being a sign Labour are unfit.
Now some Tories.
And there is mutterings of more Tories to come.

It seems they're operating on a sort of hostage taker kind of plan. Bit by bit cutting body parts off the major parties in the hope they'll finally listen to sanity. Unlikely to happen. But puts them in a better light to present it in this way.

Also, doing it bit by bit helps to keep it in the news and not just be buried the way any anti-government news tends to be these days.

I really wonder how many more Tories are set to join. And if there are more Labour members to come.

[mongers]

A theory on this independent group.
....
Also, doing it bit by bit helps to keep it in the news and not just be buried the way any anti-government news tends to be these days.

I really wonder how many more Tories are set to join. And if there are more Labour members to come.

Not many, May's strategy is to run the clock down, force the EU and parliament to accept a bodged deal, so that she is seen to deliver Brexit to the country and then call a snap general election to seal her victory, so I think the vast major of Tories will stick with her and crush labour in this 'post-war' election.

[Admiral Yi]

897 hours to go. 

Ooh, ooh, do the same thing for the US election! 

[The Minsky Moment]

Not many, May's strategy is to run the clock down, force the EU and parliament to accept a bodged deal, so that she is seen to deliver Brexit to the country and then call a snap general election to seal her victory, so I think the vast major of Tories will stick with her and crush labour in this 'post-war' election.

The problem with playing chicken and locking yourself in to not swerving is that the other driver may be the same thing.
Is there any indication now of how she will make up the 230 votes?

[Tamas]

Is there any indication now of how she will make up the 230 votes?

That's what the game of chicken is for.

It is important to understand that the EU does not factor in to British political considerations on Brexit. It is handled as an internal matter and the EU is just a force of nature kind of thing.

[Josquius]

Not many, May's strategy is to run the clock down, force the EU and parliament to accept a bodged deal, so that she is seen to deliver Brexit to the country and then call a snap general election to seal her victory, so I think the vast major of Tories will stick with her and crush labour in this 'post-war' election.

The problem with playing chicken and locking yourself in to not swerving is that the other driver may be the same thing.
Is there any indication now of how she will make up the 230 votes?

Most MPs are utterly aghast at the prospect of no deal.
She is banking on holding out until the very end at which point they'll realise they have to vote for her deal or see the country collapse at the end of next month.
Yep, she's a shit.

[Admiral Yi]

Why is she the villain and not the MPs who are unwilling to vote for what to me looks like the only reasonable solution?

[Tamas]

Why is she the villain and not the MPs who are unwilling to vote for what to me looks like the only reasonable solution?

I agree that at this stage her deal is the only viable solution.

However, the whole lack of progress, and lack of direction (her deal is an open-ended extension to a transitional period and nothing else) is largely down to her and how she thought the way out of the Brexit issue is endlessly maneuvering between her different party factions and refusing to commit to any particular direction. It is pretty hard to be sympathetic towards her.

[Admiral Yi]

I agree that at this stage her deal is the only viable solution.

However, the whole lack of progress, and lack of direction (her deal is an open-ended extension to a transitional period and nothing else) is largely down to her and how she thought the way out of the Brexit issue is endlessly maneuvering between her different party factions and refusing to commit to any particular direction. It is pretty hard to be sympathetic towards her.

I'm not arguing for sympathy.  I'm arguing against calling her shit and in favor of assigning blame where it belongs.

[Tamas]

I agree that at this stage her deal is the only viable solution.

However, the whole lack of progress, and lack of direction (her deal is an open-ended extension to a transitional period and nothing else) is largely down to her and how she thought the way out of the Brexit issue is endlessly maneuvering between her different party factions and refusing to commit to any particular direction. It is pretty hard to be sympathetic towards her.

I'm not arguing for sympathy.  I'm arguing against calling her shit and in favor of assigning blame where it belongs.

Well, in this present moment, blame indeed belongs to the majority of MPs who are still chasing unattainable versions of Brexit instead of making sure Britain doesn't fall of a cliff edge (by accepting May's deal).

However, for the failure of the two years process as whole, the blame largely belongs to May.

[Josquius]

Because her deal is terrible.
And it is not the only solution. The UK fully has it within its power to delay brexit. The EU won't make May's deal shittier but in the past they have clearly laid out several far better options that are open to us.

Or, hell, if we are insisting it is the only solution then democracy got us into this mess, let democracy decide if we do want Brexit (which we now know means May's deal).

[Valmy]

Yeah I am against a second referendum...and I don't just mean for Brexit I mean forever about anything.

[mongers]

897 hours to go. 

Ooh, ooh, do the same thing for the US election! 

Nope, I've already got bored with it; I went to bed and it was in the 900s, next time I looked at around mid-day it had already dived into the 800s.