Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Zanza]

It's interesting that this displayed as an "ambush" or the EU not properly suporting May ahead of the conserative conference in the British press. May had doubled down on Chequers and rejecting the backstop before. How else could the EU react?

[Valmy]

So the expectation was the EU was supposed to sell out the interests of one of its members and in return they were going to get the honor of supporting their good friend Theresa May in some sort of party conference?

[Josquius]

I think with Chequers there are two possibilities.

1: A threat to the EU that its either this or no deal. Do you really want basket case pirate-country UK off your coast? Think of the children!

2: An attempt to present a deal to the EU that was obviously not workable as it stood but nonetheless wasn't entirely beyond the pale and could stand as a basis for negotiation.

I was assuming 2....
But it seems it was 1.

[Josquius]

[Tamas]

So the expectation was the EU was supposed to sell out the interests of one of its members and in return they were going to get the honor of supporting their good friend Theresa May in some sort of party conference?

There is a general impression projected over here by politicians and the press (more so by politicians of course) that seems to ignore that the EU and its member states have their own interest, and they are not just trying to work out how best the UK could get out of this.

Which is either dumb, dishonest, or malicious, the latter in terms of trying to prepare for disaster by blaming it entirely on the EU and potentially poisoning relationships for decades.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I would go with dishonest. They are targetting voters.

The extent to which most of the politicians care far more for themselves or their party than for the country is quite shocking; in the main they are a disgusting rabble.

[celedhring]

I've long held the theory that all the backstabbing/politickeering necessary to reach the top echelons of any established party almost ensures that we'll only get dishonest people. It's like negative natural selection.

[Tamas]

I've long held the theory that all the backstabbing/politickeering necessary to reach the top echelons of any established party almost ensures that we'll only get dishonest people. It's like negative natural selection.

Oh yes I am sure that's the case. And as it was discussed before, truly talented people have far better ways of realising their ambitions in today's world. It's not just that we get to be run by sociopaths, which is pretty much a given in any society, but we get to be run by the sociopaths lacking any talent other than backstabbking and intriue.

[Maladict]

Maybe the job should be forced onto people that have the right character/skills and therefore do not want it. 

[Tamas]

Maybe the job should be forced onto people that have the right character/skills and therefore do not want it. 

Yeah but how do you do that? I do agree that actually wanting a political position should disqualify a person from ever having it.

I think a massive disadvantage of a true democracy is that politicians have no motivation to think beyond 4 years.

I mean, you can validly argue there are still interest groups that extert a massive influence on who actually gets elected, but I'd think far less than int he past, especially since everyone can vote.

An oligarchic/autocratic system has plenty of disadvantages, but at least the decision makers had a vested interest in thinking long term.

[Josquius]

Getting rid of FPTP will help fix the problem a bit.
More parties, more coalitions. Politics is less about fighting your way to selection and then party leadership.

[Tamas]

Getting rid of FPTP will help fix the problem a bit.
More parties, more coalitions. Politics is less about fighting your way to selection and then party leadership.

FPTP is ridiculous indeed. But those who can decide to get rid of it benefit from it, so there you go.

[celedhring]

Maybe the job should be forced onto people that have the right character/skills and therefore do not want it. 

That's pretty much what Plato says in the Republic, and milennia later we're still in the same place. 

[Josquius]

Getting rid of FPTP will help fix the problem a bit.
More parties, more coalitions. Politics is less about fighting your way to selection and then party leadership.

FPTP is ridiculous indeed. But those who can decide to get rid of it benefit from it, so there you go.

Yep. The AV referendum really was a trial run for the brexit referendum. A lot of the same dodgy tricks used there to fight against it.

[Syt]