Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Brain]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

Probably the hobby they share with the Bishop of Bath and Wells.

[Admiral Yi]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

It's as acceptable as being against, for example, Burmese nationalism, or Serbian nationalism, when it takes the form of ethnic cleansing.

[Razgovory]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

Anti-Zionism is the belief that Jews are unique in their unworthiness to have a state.  I have an idea.  Why don't we let the Jews themselves decide what is antisemitic?  We let other groups do that.  We don't lecture gays on what they can and can not consider homophobia.  Why should Jews be different?

[garbon]

Having read discussions about it elsewhere, it seems to be a combination of some people relishing the opportunity to attack Corbyn, and other people being genuinely concerned about anti-semitism. Corbyn and his supporters are focusing on the first group in their strategy and as a result are significantly increasing the concerns of the second group, and thus helping the first group.

... seems like a bit of a self-inflicted wound, to be honest.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think he could shut this brouhaha down pretty easily...or at least could have at many points in the past.

[Tamas]

I'll never understand how liberals seem to be fine with trade and relationships with many of the world's worst autocracies, but chooses to focus so much ire on Israel.

For some it's because they are antisemites. For the rest, I think, even if they wouldn't admit it even to themselves, they consider Israeli Jews white people so they hold them to different standards than third world coloured people.

You can see for example, how a lot of the London protesters against Trump were focusing on their gay/transgender/etc identity or their concern for these groups. Well, at least that seemed to be the impression I gathered from the Guardian et al. However, if the visit of the Saudi king received any protests they were much smaller, despite the worst of Trump's supposed views being far better than Saudi reality when it comes to gay or minority rights.

Why? Because America is "one of us", and Saud Arabia is an Arab country therefore doesn't really matter.

[Razgovory]

I didn't know that Otto had problems with the Liberal-Democrats of the UK.

[mongers]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

It's as acceptable as being against, for example, Burmese nationalism, or Serbian nationalism, when it takes the form of ethnic cleansing.

Funny, those are the exact same nationalisms that sprang to mind when I read JR's post. Though I'd add they have distasteful charactericistic even without the proven ethnic cleansing and massacres of the innocents.

[mongers]

I didn't know that Otto had problems with the Liberal-Democrats of the UK.

On the contrary, Vince Cable is The standard bearer for continuous global revolution.

[Razgovory]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

It's as acceptable as being against, for example, Burmese nationalism, or Serbian nationalism, when it takes the form of ethnic cleansing.

Funny, those are the exact same nationalisms that sprang to mind when I read JR's post. Though I'd add they have distasteful charactericistic even without the proven ethnic cleansing and massacres of the innocents.

Is there a big movement to deprive Serbians of their country?  What about the Burmese?  Is the existence of Myanmar a crime in of itself?

[mongers]

Can't speak to the specific British context but "anti-Zionism" is very commonly a pretext for anti-Semitism.  Hard to be otherwise.  Can you imagine some saying that are "anti-Arab" (i.e. Arab nationalism) but have no problems with Arabs as persons? Of all the nationalisms in the world, why is it acceptable specifically to be against Zionism?

It's as acceptable as being against, for example, Burmese nationalism, or Serbian nationalism, when it takes the form of ethnic cleansing.

Funny, those are the exact same nationalisms that sprang to mind when I read JR's post. Though I'd add they have distasteful charactericistic even without the proven ethnic cleansing and massacres of the innocents.

Is there a big movement to deprive Serbians of their country?  What about the Burmese?  Is the existence of Myanmar a crime in of itself?

Many 'talented' Serb nationalist have been trying to do that down the long last century.

As to your wider point, many Burmese do seem to think that way and for good reason; if the right to national self-determination still existed in a practical way in the modern world, then yes, I don't think Myanmar* would exist.

* Plenty of Burmese also object to that name, it being largely a construct promoted by the corrupt military. 

[Admiral Yi]

You're either a very patient man or a little dim mongers. 

[crazy canuck]

Having read discussions about it elsewhere, it seems to be a combination of some people relishing the opportunity to attack Corbyn, and other people being genuinely concerned about anti-semitism. Corbyn and his supporters are focusing on the first group in their strategy and as a result are significantly increasing the concerns of the second group, and thus helping the first group.

... seems like a bit of a self-inflicted wound, to be honest.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think he could shut this brouhaha down pretty easily...or at least could have at many points in the past.

And his failure to do so seems to be animating the concern all the more.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Pedants' corner :

Myanmar is the fancy literary name of the country, whereas Burma is the more colloquial name; so both are correct or incorrect according to the situation they are used in.

[Richard Hakluyt]

An article from Gov.uk by Eric Pickles :

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism

It includes this :

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor."

Which seems to me is what the left has quibbles about.

[mongers]

Pedants' corner :

Myanmar is the fancy literary name of the country, whereas Burma is the more colloquial name; so both are correct or incorrect according to the situation they are used in.

Oh thanks for that RH, didn't know that.

I was just going on what some Burmese said they prefer.