Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Brain]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

[Tamas]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

He is chasing unicorns in desperation, like the rest of his countrymen.

[Josquius]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

Question: Do you accept the brexit deal X.

A: Yes.
B: No.

No wins- then the government has to go back to the negotiating table. Ultimately someone with the balls comes to power to say "Yeah, they tried but this brexit thing clearly doesn't work. We've done what the referendum asked and tried, but our ultimate aim has to be the well being of the country rather than a democratically questionable vote that saw a narrow win for one side a few years ago"

[Tamas]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

Question: Do you accept the brexit deal X.

A: Yes.
B: No.

No wins- then the government has to go back to the negotiating table. Ultimately someone with the balls comes to power to say "Yeah, they tried but this brexit thing clearly doesn't work. We've done what the referendum asked and tried, but our ultimate aim has to be the well being of the country rather than a democratically questionable vote that saw a narrow win for one side a few years ago"

That would require for the EU to pre-agree to an extension of the negotiating time in case No wins. Which I don't see happening.

Thing is, I think the EU just wants to get done with it, without damaging the EU members too much. But I suspect they don't actually want the UK to change its mind. Getting rid of the constant British resistance to further integration would be a big help to them.

[Josquius]

That would require for the EU to pre-agree to an extension of the negotiating time in case No wins. Which I don't see happening.

Thing is, I think the EU just wants to get done with it, without damaging the EU members too much. But I suspect they don't actually want the UK to change its mind.

https://qz.com/1126174/brexit-can-article-50-be-revoked-the-author-of-the-clause-says-yes-legal-experts-are-unsure/

And more relevant, there's no reason for them not to allow it to be delayed, it's better for everyone.

Getting rid of the constant British resistance to further integration would be a big help to them.

The EU already agreed in the months before Brexit to a 2 speed Europe.

[The Brain]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

Question: Do you accept the brexit deal X.

A: Yes.
B: No.

No wins- then the government has to go back to the negotiating table. Ultimately someone with the balls comes to power to say "Yeah, they tried but this brexit thing clearly doesn't work. We've done what the referendum asked and tried, but our ultimate aim has to be the well being of the country rather than a democratically questionable vote that saw a narrow win for one side a few years ago"

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weaken the EU enormously.

[Tamas]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

Question: Do you accept the brexit deal X.

A: Yes.
B: No.

No wins- then the government has to go back to the negotiating table. Ultimately someone with the balls comes to power to say "Yeah, they tried but this brexit thing clearly doesn't work. We've done what the referendum asked and tried, but our ultimate aim has to be the well being of the country rather than a democratically questionable vote that saw a narrow win for one side a few years ago"

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weakening itself enormously.

It is hard to see these things reasonably if you live in the UK. Every political development in Europe is seen in relation to Brexit, as if this was the all-encompassing issue driving politics in Europe as well. If you don't follow news from another European country, it is hard to realise that the European public opinion doesn't care about Brexit, apart from laughing.

[The Brain]

What's the second referendum supposed to be about? The negotiated deal? Surely that deal will be better than no deal.

Unless no deal means no brexit.

How would that work?

Question: Do you accept the brexit deal X.

A: Yes.
B: No.

No wins- then the government has to go back to the negotiating table. Ultimately someone with the balls comes to power to say "Yeah, they tried but this brexit thing clearly doesn't work. We've done what the referendum asked and tried, but our ultimate aim has to be the well being of the country rather than a democratically questionable vote that saw a narrow win for one side a few years ago"

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weakening itself enormously.

It is hard to see these things reasonably if you live in the UK. Every political development in Europe is seen in relation to Brexit, as if this was the all-encompassing issue driving politics in Europe as well. If you don't follow news from another European country, it is hard to realise that the European public opinion doesn't care about Brexit, apart from laughing.

Yeah. Europeans have simply noted that the UK is retarded and that Brexit is happening. Life goes on.

[grumbler]

So what made the political parties, none of which (apart from UKIP) supported the Leave campaign, vote to leave?

That, indeed, is the question.  Why did the Members of parliament so spectacularly fail in their obligations to their constituents?

Also, Tyr was talking about a different referendum.

Ah, I see that now.  Still, referenda don't have power in the UK.  Parliament is sovereign, not the people.  AV will come when Parliament votes for it, and not before.

[Josquius]

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weaken the EU enormously.

Who said anything about renegotiating?
If there is to be any renegotiating it would be along the lines of the UK losing some of its privileges.

Any I don't see how stopping the UK imploding and losing one of the EU's largest members would hurt the EU.

[HVC]

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weaken the EU enormously.

Who said anything about renegotiating?
If there is to be any renegotiating it would be along the lines of the UK losing some of its privileges.

Any I don't see how stopping the UK imploding and losing one of the EU's largest members would hurt the EU.

Because it sets precedent. next time someone wants something they'll "leave" and try to renegotiate a deal.

[Josquius]

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weaken the EU enormously.

Who said anything about renegotiating?
If there is to be any renegotiating it would be along the lines of the UK losing some of its privileges.

Any I don't see how stopping the UK imploding and losing one of the EU's largest members would hurt the EU.

Because it sets precedent. next time someone wants something they'll "leave" and try to renegotiate a deal.

Except the UK isn't getting a better deal out of this. If there's any change it'll be for the worse. The only precedent is that even the UK can't make Brexit work so everybody else stands a snowball's chance in hell.

[Gups]

Yeah. Europeans have simply noted that the UK is retarded and that Brexit is happening. Life goes on.

Hey, only 52% of it. London and Scotland are hardly retarded at all. My constituency was 80% remain and we're politically cleansing persuading the few remaining leavers to fuck off to Sunderland or some other Brexity hell change their minds.

[celedhring]

Yeah. Europeans have simply noted that the UK is retarded and that Brexit is happening. Life goes on.

Hey, only 52% of it. London and Scotland are hardly retarded at all. My constituency was 80% remain and we're politically cleansing persuading the few remaining leavers to fuck off to Sunderland or some other Brexity hell change their minds.

Scotland scored 44% retardedness in 2014 

[The Brain]

I don't follow. The EU would have to display UK level stupidity to accept that members use Article 50 as a renegotiating tool (if such a thing is even legally possible which I don't know). And while anything is possible with strong enough political will I don't see the EU mustering that kind of will just to save the UK from its own stupidity and in doing so weaken the EU enormously.

Who said anything about renegotiating?
If there is to be any renegotiating it would be along the lines of the UK losing some of its privileges.

Any I don't see how stopping the UK imploding and losing one of the EU's largest members would hurt the EU.

It's better for the EU to chop off the bad foot than let the rot spread.