Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

Gibraltar isn't going to kill anyone if either possible solution is taken. With Northern Ireland someone is almost certainly going to die.

On Gibraltar, what are the current Spanish government like? It is a concern they may overlook the logical answer of letting Gibraltar remain in favour of flag waving and demanding Gibraltar join Spain.

I really don't know enough about Gibraltars status to guess how things could work vis a vis the UK if they get to keep their rights whilst the UK proper loses them though... It does strike me they could try and get some intermediate smugglers haven thing going on.

[The Brain]

I still think it is undemocratic not to have a vote on the specific Brexit plan. Many people who voted for this thing were voting for promises of a thousand free unicorns since the Brexit crowd never had to put forth realistic policy points. I mean so long as we are governing by plebiscite here.

But they are not. Both Parliament and the government thought Brexit without a detailed plan was awesome.

[celedhring]

On Gibraltar, what are the current Spanish government like? It is a concern they may overlook the logical answer of letting Gibraltar remain in favour of flag waving and demanding Gibraltar join Spain.

They'll use it as a bargaining chip. Overall Spain is for soft Brexit.

Personally I think that the current status quo is bad for the region. Gibraltar acts as a quasi tax-haven that sucks dry the economy of the region - which has become one of the most impoverished areas in Spain. A hard border would be a bad answer but Spain would be right to demand higher regulatory convergence in exchange of a special status.

[The Larch]

I don't think it will be a problem to get Gibraltar some kind of special deal that'd allow it to remain in the common market and customs union. It's tiny, not part of the UK proper, so there's no argument about inequality within the UK, its economy is completely dependant on the EU rather than the UK and it voted overwhelmingly for Remain. In exchange, I assume that Spain would ask for, as a pipe-dream, co-soveraignty, and after getting rebuked from that, for some tightening of the remaining tax haven-ish local laws.

[Tamas]

Do you remember how there has been a row to have the government release the Brexit impact assessments? They were recently forced to, they released some basic crap that seemed highly censored, so the Commons have been demanding the full version.

Now David Davies is saying there has never been any impact assessments made about the effects of Brexit.

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry.

[celedhring]

Do you remember how there has been a row to have the government release the Brexit impact assessments? They were recently forced to, they released some basic crap that seemed highly censored, so the Commons have been demanding the full version.

Now David Davies is saying there has never been any impact assessments made about the effects of Brexit.

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry.

Good god.

[Tamas]

Benn asks a final question.

Q: Did the government undertake an assessment of leaving the customs union before the cabinet took that decision?

Not a quantitative one, no, says Davis.

Q: Isn't that extraordinary?

No, says Davis. He says the range of different outcomes it too wide. Some free trade agreements have been very effective, and others haven't. Ministers had to take a judgment. That is what thy did, he says.

[The Brain]

AFAIK the Commons voted for Brexit without doing any meaningful impact assessment...

[Josquius]

Jesus. So there is no assessment afterall. And they've been trying to hide this for months.
https://t.co/6GDzPzIQ6l

[garbon]

Should be criminal.

[celedhring]

Benn asks a final question.

Q: Did the government undertake an assessment of leaving the customs union before the cabinet took that decision?

Not a quantitative one, no, says Davis.

Q: Isn't that extraordinary?

No, says Davis. He says the range of different outcomes it too wide. Some free trade agreements have been very effective, and others haven't. Ministers had to take a judgment. That is what thy did, he says.

"This malarkey is too complicated, let's just wing it"

[Tamas]

Benn asks a final question.

Q: Did the government undertake an assessment of leaving the customs union before the cabinet took that decision?

Not a quantitative one, no, says Davis.

Q: Isn't that extraordinary?

No, says Davis. He says the range of different outcomes it too wide. Some free trade agreements have been very effective, and others haven't. Ministers had to take a judgment. That is what thy did, he says.

"This malarkey is too complicated, let's just wing it"

Well yes, that's the summary of what he said.

This attitude is unforgivable even for business-as-usual government work, let alone for something the magnitude of Brexit.

[Richard Hakluyt]

All over the country ordinary people before opening a cafe or setting up a one-person plumbing business draft a business plan. Meanwhile our government can't be arsed to make even basic projections about the implications of a country of 65m leaving an important trading bloc........ it makes you think 

[Iormlund]

All over the country ordinary people before opening a cafe or setting up a one-person plumbing business draft a business plan. Meanwhile our government can't be arsed to make even basic projections about the implications of a country of 65m leaving an important trading bloc........ it makes you think 

It's all about incentives.

If the bank doesn't like that business plan you don't get funding. OTOH voters will elect inept politicians, as long as they say what they want to hear.

[Tamas]

Hammond confirms cabinet has not had specific discussion about final Brexit outcome it wants

Q: Has the cabinet discussed the end state, where the UK wants to get to after Brexit?

Hammond says there have been discussions about Brexit, but not a specific one about the end state.