Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

I see that in the latest u-turn from his previous ideas that Starmer has now said he backs FPTP and has no intention to do electoral reform. Completing his transition from the leadership candidate Jos backed and I was dubious about

As I too can only see  electoral reform as a distraction when Labour's possibly going to win 70% of the seats

[Josquius]

What was the context? Ambushed on it as an attempted tory attack line?
Pretty shit and unlikely to be helpful. I doubt many boomers are all that scared of democracy and it will push people who were considering it towards the greens.
Yes. Starmer is shaping up to be a massive disappointment. He will be better then the tories. But at the moment signs are he won't even match up to Blair.

[Sheilbh]

What was the context? Ambushed on it as an attempted tory attack line?

In an interview with ITV I think.

Pretty shit and unlikely to be helpful. I doubt many boomers are all that scared of democracy and it will push people who were considering it towards the greens.
Yes. Starmer is shaping up to be a massive disappointment. He will be better then the tories. But at the moment signs are he won't even match up to Blair.

All joking aside, political attacks that work are either based in reality or commonly held perceptions of reality. I think it's striking that both left and right are basically making trust-based attacks on Starmer and I think that will build because I think, fundamentally, they are kind of true.

[Sheilbh]

I see the Telegraph is reckoning with the prospect of a Labour government with quiet dignity and grace:




Not directly election related but their Waitrose has fallen headline also magnificent:


I'd love to be a fly on their wall in their editorial meetings

[Valmy]

14 years of Tories = state of moral collapse with only a tiny bit of joy left to suck.

Not sure that is going to scare me into voting Conservative there Telegraph.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Not even Waitrose is safe 

... I've never liked Starmer, even back when he was DPP I felt he had repressive instincts. Interesting that these right wing people don't seem to see that 

He is possibly our best bet to deal with all the problems they so love to constantly rehearse, even if that pisses off his own party.

[Gups]

Hard to be DPP without coming across as at least a bit repressive...

I think he has good credentials as a lawyer including representing the McLibel two for free over a long period of time.

He is a poor campaigner and I don't warm to him at all. Labour's policies are unimaginaive and timid. But what I want over the next 4-5 years is competence, probity, reasonable medium-term planning and discipline. Things like keeping ministers in place for a couple of years so they learn their jobs rather than constant shuffling for party political reason.

I'm pretty confident we are going to get this.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes, I agree. It does make the Telegraph attack look risible; Starmer would not have been out of place in the Tory party in the 1970s. I also think there is a good chance that the competence level will soar with the new government, he has some good colleagues imo (of course with the current tory shower our bar may be too low).

The right has spent many years grumbling about civil servants thwarting them, but if you change ministers frequently then that is inevitable. It seems to be the consensus that it takes at least a year for a new minister to master his brief; so, given the very frequent changes of jobs by tory ministers, hardly any of them have been in post long enough to know what they are doing....which is exactly what it looks like. All covered many years ago in Yes minister of course.

[Josquius]

The tory leanings of the bbc at work again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q0rvgv25xo.amp


Headline they chose : Illegal arrivals could apply for asylum under Labour

A more factual headline I'd suggest : Labour to start actually following international law again rather than engaging in pointless performative cruelty that just makes the situation worse.

[Gups]

That's a very long headline

[Josquius]

That's a very long headline

just the first bit works out if we're being serious

[Sheilbh]

Sir Simon Case to step down (in January) if Starmer wins - which is good news and necessary but he really should be fired.

Also struck by the number of journalists and pollsters saying that how many normal people (even some party activists) are really not expecting a landslide. It goes to BBoy's point of most people really really not following politics.

[Josquius]

Sir Simon Case to step down (in January) if Starmer wins - which is good news and necessary but he really should be fired.

Also struck by the number of journalists and pollsters saying that how many normal people (even some party activists) are really not expecting a landslide. It goes to BBoy's point of most people really really not following politics.

Yes. Basically every on the street interview I'm seeing is quite worrying.
Lots of don't knows (probably something bad), kids and gammon alike supporting farage, deluded sods who think the tories have done a good job...
There's a huge general distaste for the system, lots of "they're all the same" crap the far right love to spread - though odds are good these same people wouldn't actually support any positive change if there was to be a reform proposal.

I'm fairly confident the quiet majority will still come out for labour. And hopefully at least some of those annoyed at the system will vote positively for green (for no immediate impact of course).

My seat will remain labour of course. Zero worries there.
But whether they'll be able to gain as many as hoped....

[Sheilbh]

Oh to be clear I think the polls are accurate.

My point is how little normal people follow politics and how little things politics-obsessive take for granted actually cut through. If anything I think it makes a landslide more likely as I think the supermajority line will work less and also mean less complacency (like voting Green ). Also makes me think Labour's closing message ("if you want change, vote for it. Vote Labour") is the right one.

I'd add the British far right are long standing supporters of electoral reform, so they'd back that positive change at least

[Josquius]

The British far rights politicians say they want electoral reform. Whilst it would benefit them.
If they take over the tories? I doubt they'd keep it.
It's pure self interest rather than any love of democracy.
Also I really don't think their voters are too into this side of their policies.

I'm not sure on the landslide thing... A lot of people thinking labour have already won out there. On the other hand also a lot of comments saying whichever way I vote it doesn't matter it won't change anything - could be taken as far right "they're all the same" trash, on the other hand could be taken as not expecting a labour landslide and much of a practical change.

I am increasingly doubtful day by day on what change we will see I must say. The tories have absolutely screwed the finances.
Have to hope labour have enough of a plan for putting less spendy ideas into practice, like planning reform.
But even there... Loosening planning restrictions at a time of skint government, especially local, seems like a dodgy mix.