Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/more-than-half-of-tory-members-in-poll-say-islam-a-threat-to-british-way-of-life

The article focuses on 58% of Tory voters finding Islam a threat to the "British way of life" but glosses over what's also in the results they show, namely that 30% of the UK population thinks so too according to the poll.

Which would show why Starmer was right not to go all-in on the "humanitarian pro-Palestinian" side of the latest conflict.

[Jacob]

How many of those 30% of the UK population all up are made up of the 58% of Tory voters?

Also, I'll note that it's possible to not want to go all in on the "humanitarian pro-Palestinian" side of the conflict without thinking "Islam is a threat to the British way of life" (further supporting your view of Starmer's positioning).

[Richard Hakluyt]

That 58% is for Tory party members not voters. They are an ageing and bigoted bunch, at least by modern standards. It is quite possible that their voters are no more islamophobic than the general population.

The members get to decide who is the leader of the party; so the problem is that for an unprincipled politician (all of them since this is the tories we are talking about    ), taking an anti-muslim position is almost a requirement in a leadership election.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah so that's 58% of about 100,000. They will be more Islamophobic but probably not significantly more than the right/Tory voters generally.

And that 30-ish% number sounds about right from previous surveys:


I think the Tories have a problem with Islamophobia and it was right to suspend Anderson.

And take RH's point but as with gender and race, the Tories also appointed the first Muslim Chancellor and he was the first Muslim leadership candidate of any of the main parties (where he came fourth) and indeed the second (who came last). As ever, I think this says a lot more about the Labour Party than the Tories but is an annoying recurrent thing.

Edit: And I think specifically during ISIS' rule there was similar polling with a similar result.

[Sheilbh]

This is interesting/fun:
https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/build-a-voter

[Sheilbh]

Also an update on the crooked pub - the owners have been ordered to rebuild it after it mysteriously burned down. This reminds me of a pub in North London that was illegally demolished and ordered to be rebuilt brick by brick.

Apparently rebuilding a crooked pub presents some engineering challenges

Owners who demolished Crooked House pub after fire ordered to rebuild it
ATE Farms issued with enforcement notice for unlawful demolition and told to build it back to 'what it was before the fire'
Jessica Murray Midlands correspondent
Tue 27 Feb 2024 13.28 GMT
First published on Tue 27 Feb 2024 12.51 GMT


People inspect the remains of the Crooked House pub in Himley, which was demolished two days after it was gutted by fire. Photograph: Matthew Cooper/PA

The owners of the Crooked House pub, which was burned down and then demolished last year, have been ordered to rebuild it in its original form after being issued an enforcement notice for unlawful demolition.

The mayor of the West Midlands, Andy Street, said the news marked a "monumental day" in the campaign to rebuild the 260-year-old pub in Himley, famous for its wonky floors.

"They have been ordered to rebuild the pub back to what it was before the fire, just as we've been lobbying for," he said.

The enforcement notice, issued by South Staffordshire district council on Tuesday, states that the building must be "built back to what it was prior to the fire" within three years. The owners have 30 days to appeal against the notice.

The council said it had engaged with the owners since the demolition but the situation had "reached a point where formal action is considered necessary".

The leader of the council, Roger Lees, said: "We have not taken this action lightly, but we believe that it is right to bring the owners, who demolished the building without consent, to account and we are committed to do what we can to get the Crooked House rebuilt."

Paul Turner, a local resident who has helped to spearhead the campaign for a rebuild, said he was "absolutely delighted" by the news.

"This is what we've been looking for, and we're really happy we've now got the law on our side," he said. "That doesn't mean it's going to be straightforward and fast. We've got the bricks stored in containers but we don't know how quick and easy it's going to be with the compliance from the owners.

"We can't get too excited too quickly, but we are delighted."


The Crooked House as it was before the fire. Photograph: Nick Maslen/Alamy/PA

If the owners do not appeal and fail to rebuild the pub, the council can prosecute for failure to comply.

In a message posted to a 35,000-strong Facebook group pushing for the pub to be rebuilt, Street said: "What you have done to keep the Crooked House at the forefront of people's minds has been exceptional, and as mayor I want to personally thank you all.

"I said at the time of the tragedy that the owners had messed with the wrong community, and you haven't half proved that right."

He also said South Staffordshire district council deserved "enormous credit for holding their nerve and pursuing this enforcement action".

The Crooked House pub was gutted in a fire on 5 August last year, in what was suspected to be an arson attack, nine days after being sold to new owners. The rest of the building was demolished without permission less than 48 hours later, prompting a national outcry and calls for better protection for heritage pubs.

The brewery Marston's had sold the pub to ATE Farms, which has connections to a number of other businesses, including the company that runs a landfill site next door.

Politicians and local campaigners have been pushing for the pub to be rebuilt brick-by-brick, pointing to the Carlton Tavern in west London, which was rebuilt "in facsimile" after its demolition and reopened in 2021, as evidence it can be done.

Originally built as a farmhouse in 1765, The Crooked House is thought to have been a pub since about 1830. Its lopsided appearance was caused by mining subsidence that had caused it to sink – it was scheduled for demolition in the 1940s before the wonky building was made safe with reinforcements.

The pub had become a popular tourist attraction in the area and visitors recalled how they would be given a marble to roll along the bar that appeared to be rolling uphill.

Police have a made a number of arrests in connection with the Crooked House pub fire, which they are treating as arson.

A woman, 34, and two men, aged 44 and 23, were arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to commit arson with intent or being reckless as to whether life was endangered, and three other men, aged 66, 51 and 33, were held on suspicion of arson with intent to endanger life. All were released on conditional bail.

Slight caveat here is that by all reports, it was a dreadful pub

[Duque de Bragança]

Slight caveat here is that by all reports, it was a dreadful pub

You need those to appreciate even more the better ones. 

[Tamas]

It's like with high street shops closing. Almost none of the people who complain about it actually shopped there.

[Josquius]

Hope there's precedent for this. I've seen way too many mysterious fires in businesses based in historic buildings where the sites are later redeveloped.
All without any fuss at all.

[HVC]

Probably be less fires if you made it easier to tear down a literally crooked building

[Sheilbh]

Hope there's precedent for this. I've seen way too many mysterious fires in businesses based in historic buildings where the sites are later redeveloped.
All without any fuss at all.

There is:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/21/rising-from-the-rubble-london-pub-rebuilt-brick-by-brick-after-bulldozing

Can't say I've heard of many other examples.

Just reading reporting on the report into Wayne Couzens. Yet again: danming.

[Josquius]

Hope there's precedent for this. I've seen way too many mysterious fires in businesses based in historic buildings where the sites are later redeveloped.
All without any fuss at all.

There is:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/21/rising-from-the-rubble-london-pub-rebuilt-brick-by-brick-after-bulldozing

Can't say I've heard of many other examples.

Just reading reporting on the report into Wayne Couzens. Yet again: danming.

Yeah, I've heard of this London one before. It was good, but...London. The government cares about London and things actually work the way they're meant to there.
This latest story is significant in it happening in the West Midlands, which seems to have similar vibes of anything flies there.

[Gups]

Hope there's precedent for this. I've seen way too many mysterious fires in businesses based in historic buildings where the sites are later redeveloped.
All without any fuss at all.

There is:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/21/rising-from-the-rubble-london-pub-rebuilt-brick-by-brick-after-bulldozing

Can't say I've heard of many other examples.

Just reading reporting on the report into Wayne Couzens. Yet again: danming.

Yeah, I've heard of this London one before. It was good, but...London. The government cares about London and things actually work the way they're meant to there.
This latest story is significant in it happening in the West Midlands, which seems to have similar vibes of anything flies there.

What's it got to do with the Government? It's local planning authorities which have the necessary enforcement powers.

[Sheilbh]

Rochdale election tonight. George Galloway, of the Workers Party of Great Britain has been endorsed by Nick Griffin or the BNP. Proving that he's a one man red-brown alliance, Galloway's campaign has been sending these two letters, I assume to different intended audiences:



Of course none of it technically contradicts, just highlighting different parts of his politics. But still

I think he is the bookie's favourite to win. Although apparently the (not) Labour candidate is still in with a chance.

Separately on the red-brown (or technically, I suppose, green-brown alliances) I've seen a few figures from the far-right in Britain (BNP etc) being interviewed on podcasts aimed at British Muslims basically saying they don't really have an issues with Muslims, the real problem is "Zionists". Which is not great.

[Josquius]

Ah the brexit classic.
At least he's not promising complete opposites to the two.

What's it got to do with the Government? It's local planning authorities which have the necessary enforcement powers.

That's government?
And their funding ultimately comes from Westminster.