Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

Mine has them too. They're stupid. And to think the woman living here before purposefully got them.
Don't usually see them diagonal.

And id love to eat more venison but I think it's posh reputation goes both ways with it being hard to find and expensive.
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Sheilbh

#24421
I'm not sure I'd go for them personally. Not keen - but to each their own.

QuoteWell, with the bars you can leave the window open and get fresh air without having to worry about intruders... or at least intruders with heads too large to fit between the bars.
Fair - hadn't thought of this. And it reflects my only experience of being burgled which happened because the builders left the front door open :lol: :bleeding:

Separately the SNP leadersip campaign is continuing to go well. The SNP were planning to announce the result without confirming the number of eligible voters or the number of votes each candidate received - this didn't go down well with Forbes and Regan (who are running as change candidates). Eventually they forced the SNP executive to reveal the numbers of eligible voters which showed they'd lost a third of their membership since 2021. Forbes (who is currently finance minister in Scotland) said it showed that just continuity (i.e. Yousaf) would be a catastrophe. That would be continuity with the government she's currently finance minister for.

Separately Labour have attacked the SNP of taking a turn to the right because of Forbes' positions especially. In a sign of how divisive the gender recognition reform has been in Scotland, Forbes and Regan in the debate both described JK Rowling as a "national treasure" and "brave". Yousaf said she was "amazing in terms of the books she's written, but I do disagree with her vehemently on the issue of transgender rights". Rowling has described the current SNP Government (which, in fairness, Regan resigned from to vote against gender recognition reform) as a "destroyer of women's rights".

Forbes also said she would have a role in the Scottish cabinet for Regan and for Yousaf - but "maybe not health" for Yousaf. He's currenty Scottish Health Minister :ph34r: :lol:

It's also since come out that the SNP National Secretary (responsible for overseeing the election) was tweeting her doubts in 2018 that Russia was behind the Skripal poisonings in Salisbury. That story, apparently, "has more holes" than a sieve. Labour have responded with "these are deeply worrying statements to see from a senior figure in Scotland's governing party. As war rages in Europe, we must have no place for Putin apology at any level of Scottish politics." While the Tories have gone with "no wonder the SNP's own leadership candidates are questioning the integrity of the election if the person running it appears to buy Vladimir Putin's line so easily."

The SNP has always been a very weird party that brings together lots of strands basically united around independence and a lot of those factions and divisions have been hidden from the public. Partly this is just because they're incredibly disciplined, it is almost unheard of to hear of any SNP MP or MSP rebelling against the party whip. But also partly because, except for 2000-2004, the SNP have been led by Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon since 1990. It's a party that's been really built around those two personalities. And it seems like this leadership race is really opening up those divisions and meaning there's a full airing of all the party's dirty linen.

Separately I've always thought that a lot of the stuff people associate negatively with Brexit were in many ways previewed in the 2014 Indy Ref - attacks on the press (protests to sack "Biased British Corporation" journalists), then setting up alternative media in The National, attacks on institutions, conspiracy theories, some incredibly nasty and personal campaigns, polarisation that really challenged friendships, all the cybernats etc. It's also the only referendum where there is really concrete evidence that Russia was trying to influence. All that seems to have been forgotten in the last few years by English liberals/moderates who agree with the SNP on Brexit and want to see some comeuppance. Hopefully this leadership campaign will wake those people up again <_<

Edit: Separately it's a reminder that until relatively recently (2012) the SNP supported withdrawing from NATO as it's a nuclear alliance. They've also recently shifted on a lot of foreign policy issues - especially Ukraine - which is a huge credit to Stewart MacDonald who's their foreign policy spokesperson in Westminster and has been going to Ukraine regularly since he was elected in 2015. But despite that there is within the party a pretty deep crank-ish anti-Western alliance strand.
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt


crazy canuck

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 17, 2023, 02:33:04 PMWell I assume you'd use the (by the looks of it, glass) door next to the window. Which seems to also maybe undermine the security angle? :lol: :hmm:

That is probably it.  But a bit of a problem if the fire is blocking access to the door.

Sheilbh

And on that membership figures muddle, the SNP's Comms Director, who had been briefing journalists that they don't keep a running tally but membership was around 100,000, has now resigned. It was around 100k in 2021 but is now down to 70k.

He said there are "serious issues" with the responses he was given by party HQ that "created a serious impediment to my role".

Reports are now circulating that the party CEO (and Sturgeon's husband) is likely to resign in the coming weeks. In part because SNP figures are briefing that he was telling "barefaced lies" to the party's media team who are now getting the flack - also obviously reports that he's due to be questioned by the police over party finances.

Just a lot of things kicking off at once in the party - it's really extraordinary.
Let's bomb Russia!

Gups

Quote from: Josquius on March 17, 2023, 02:56:51 PMMine has them too. They're stupid. And to think the woman living here before purposefully got them.
Don't usually see them diagonal.

And id love to eat more venison but I think it's posh reputation goes both ways with it being hard to find and expensive.

Venison is generally cheaper than decent quality beef or lamb.

Tamas

If course its cheaper because it tastes worse. :p

Sheilbh

Murrell has resigned too. This has finally made the Guardian and BBC front page as it should given that it's about the political chaos in one of the governing parties of the UK and their future leadership <_<

I think a huge part of how the SNP has coasted since 2014 is that they're fundamentally treated as not of interest to the UK national press despite beinig pretty important.

Particularly with the BBC who have lots of journalists in all the nations and regions, shouldn't be as focused on Westminster and are a public service broadcaster. But I think this probably ties to my general criticism of Davie - I feel like the BBC is drifting a bit from hard news. Just now it is crazy to me that the top layer has a story about Taylor Swift's new tour, Harry Styles' concern for dancers at the Grammys and a story about a Cambridge College examining its connections with the slave trade - the Cambridge college is basically just reporting a press release, while Harry Styles one is spinning a story out of something he said on a BBC podcast <_<
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 18, 2023, 07:46:39 AMParticularly with the BBC who have lots of journalists in all the nations and regions, shouldn't be as focused on Westminster and are a public service broadcaster. But I think this probably ties to my general criticism of Davie - I feel like the BBC is drifting a bit from hard news. Just now it is crazy to me that the top layer has a story about Taylor Swift's new tour, Harry Styles' concern for dancers at the Grammys and a story about a Cambridge College examining its connections with the slave trade - the Cambridge college is basically just reporting a press release, while Harry Styles one is spinning a story out of something he said on a BBC podcast <_<

This could potentially be explained by a pro-Tory desire to ignore politics when dealing with politics couldn't possibly benefit the Conservatives.

Sheilbh

#24429
Quote from: Tamas on March 18, 2023, 07:54:38 AMThis could potentially be explained by a pro-Tory desire to ignore politics when dealing with politics couldn't possibly benefit the Conservatives.
I think that's pretty galaxy brained. Ignoring massive infighting, corruption scandals with police investigtions and general chaos in a party opposed to the Tories somehow helps the Tories :hmm:

I suspect it's the same things that are driving similar decisions in the commercial press. It is cheap to report a press release or something someone says on a podcast. It also doesn't require a reporter with expertise or knowledge - it's something a grad with a humanities degree can write. If that press release is about examining a British institutions historic connections with the slave trade it will get clicks and also drive engagement online as people argue about it. If it's someone saying something on your podcast you are basically just cross-selling.

It's not an issue of bias, I don't think and (again it's just an old man opinion by me :lol:) it's not the first time in recent years I've thought the BBC homepage seems to be drifting from hard news. It goes to my wider issue with the BBC's current leadership/strategy - the BBC should be able to resist those commercial pressures because it is a public service broadcaster and that's what justifies its funding model.

To the extent there is bias, with Scotland in particular I think the big beneficiary has been the SNP. It's not just the BBC but I've found it really annoying over the last few years that Nicola Sturgeon was always treated by the national media as if she were a foreign dignitary, like Angela Merkel, rather than a participant in our national politics. And I think with the various local scandals - as well as policy failures are treated as local politics and not reported: education attainment falling behind England for the first time ever, drug deaths skyrocketing, the chaos at Police Scotland. I feel like when Sturgeon felt under pressure from the Scottish media she'd do something with the national press because she knew it would be an easy ride.

Obviously while Scotland's a nation it has a smaller population so will get less airtime - but they've got far more devolved power than Metro Mayors. But I think if Andy Burnham or Sadiq Khan had similar records it would be on the national news. It may just be the Westminster bias/lens that both of them are former ministers/shadow ministers so the Westminster political correspondents understand them and can talk about them while properly reporting Holyrood would cede that.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

I meant  dealing with politics in general (which I thought you were talking about), not the SNP's implosion in particular.

Sheilbh

#24431
Yeah - I think even more generally it's not a Tory conspiracy or bias. I think it's the BBC responding to the same commercial pressures around cost, what drives engagement and a little bit of cross-selling. I just think that given the BBC's model it should be able to be more resistent to that - an editor should be able to say that what Harry Styles said on the BBC Eurovision Podcsast is not a front-page news story. It reminds me a bit of the wider BBC strategy which is to focus on more popular content.

Also I think that thematic review of economics coverage - especially debt - the BBC did was right. Too much goes through political correspondents and is being reported with a Westminster lens even when subject area experts disagreed whether it was a story. They also weren't the people to actually report the story. There was too much outsourcing of judgement to (albeit very respected) third parties like the IFS and BofE. I think a lot of that (or at least the first two points) also applies to the way Scotland's been covered - and it's not just a BBC issue, but they did a thematic review on it. As I say I always think of the covid press conferences with health and science correspondents asking really good, useful questions and then Peston popping up with "just to go back to the scotch eggs point" :bleeding: :ultra:

Edit: I also think about it whenever the PM goes abroad actually and does a press conference - I get that in part this is playing against Number 10's media management but I feel like the press should ask something about the foreign policy reasons the trip's happened, rather than just the latest parochial Westminster village story.
Let's bomb Russia!

Gups

The implosion of the SNP is quite astonishing really.

mongers

Quote from: Gups on March 18, 2023, 09:35:47 AMThe implosion of the SNP is quite astonishing really.

A one trick pony runs, everyone has now seen the act and are beginning to look behind the smoke and mirrors, to mix one's metaphors?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Tamas

I guess nobody sane wants to be in charge of anything at the party when the true reason for Sturgeon's abrupt exit becomes public.