Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[mongers]

And you still seem to have those historical counties as well, or not? Are they political entities with actual competences?

No. I don't think historical counties have any powers.

But, you're right they still exist. That's basically I think a long, lingering cultural impact. There's exceptions - like London -...snip....

Maybe I should ask for a refund on my council tax for the portion that goes to Hampshire county council?

[Sheilbh]

I've been wondering whether a good way of doing devolution might not be to do as many places do and have a seperate tax for your local area (a replacement for the idiocy of council tax).
We could learn from Japan on this and have the concept of a home town tax where you get to send part of this away back home.
The bother there of course will be selfishness and people choosing where they live over their hometown - in Japan the problem they have is outright bribery from towns for people to choose them - so I wonder whether some kind of mandatory nature could work. The tax is split in 18ths and distributed to where you grew up.

Yeah there's a few countries with local taxes like that - I love the French model that I think reserves a chunk of income tax raised in a region for local government to spend on transport. That sort of system is one of the reasons why most of Europe has vastly better public transport, for example, because local government raises the money and can decide how to spend it. I also generally think control of tax and spend is a huge part of how political power actually works - and in this country it is vastly in the hands of the Treasury who don't want to give any of it up. I think it's a problem that leads to a lot of the lack of investment, pennywise/pound foolish decisions and disconnection from politics. Basically while I think Truss' strategy wasn't a resounding success, I think taking on the Treasury's power is a really important thing.

We already have people choosing where to live (if they can afford it) with services - nothing affects houseprices as much as the local school's Ofsted rating and catchment area. But I think there is a mindset issue in Britain that devolution means things will be different and areas will compete for residents and business - there may be slightly different tax rates or public services as a result of local democracy. I don't think it's necessarily selfishness, just one of many factors at play and it's okay for different bits of the country to do things differently.

Worth flagging on centralisation that Scotland is also going through the same - the SNP have massively centralised healthcare into NHS Scotland, control of the police into Police Scotland and they're trying to do the same with the care system into Care Scotland. As with post-war Labour, part of this, I think, nation-building.

Maybe I should ask for a refund on my council tax for the portion that goes to Hampshire county council?

[The Larch]

Somebody mentioned English counties?

[OttoVonBismarck]

The U.S. States have full dual tax authority--anything that could conceivably be taxed, the States can tax it--they actually have more taxing authority even than the Federal government because the Feds have some limitations based on enumerated powers. The States are also of course allowed to double tax things already taxed by the Feds (income, gasoline/diesel, capital gains, etc etc.)

[Sheilbh]

The U.S. States have full dual tax authority--anything that could conceivably be taxed, the States can tax it--they actually have more taxing authority even than the Federal government because the Feds have some limitations based on enumerated powers. The States are also of course allowed to double tax things already taxed by the Feds (income, gasoline/diesel, capital gains, etc etc.)

This is the situation here:


Not sure if that includes the business rates redistribution by central government. In terms of England the level of local tax collection/powers is by some distance the lowest in the OECD.

Of course - and this is one for Tamas to enjoy - the devolved powers over tax have been used by Scotland and Wales. Both Labour and the SNP used it to increase the threshold at which you pay stamp duty Scotland have also slightly altered income tax rates.

That's all from the Institute for Government who are very close to the civil service so they have a lengthy explainer, then a list of reasons why tax devolution is a bad idea and finally one sentence and a chart noting that the UK is a massive outlier

By the by, I'm sure a worse line to take is possible in theory - but I can't think of one

Rob Merrick
@Rob_Merrick
Tory chair Nadhim Zahawi says nurses must "send a message to Putin".....by accepting real-terms pay cuts
Zahawi latest on NHS strikes, tells BBC: "It's exactly what Mr Putin wants to see!"

[The Larch]

Isn't Zahawi the one who basically demanded to be made Chancellor after Sunak resigned only to demand Boris' resignation a couple of days later anyway?

[Sheilbh]

Isn't Zahawi the one who basically demanded to be made Chancellor after Sunak resigned only to demand Boris' resignation a couple of days later anyway?

Yes. And after Truss resigned, he endorsed Johnson.

He's been on quite the journey.

[The Larch]

Isn't Zahawi the one who basically demanded to be made Chancellor after Sunak resigned only to demand Boris' resignation a couple of days later anyway?

Yes. And after Truss resigned, he endorsed Johnson.

He's been on quite the journey.

How he has managed to retain a position of power after that will never cease to surprise me. He came across as a total snake (with my apologies to snakes).

[Sheilbh]

How he has managed to retain a position of power after that will never cease to surprise me. He came across as a total snake (with my apologies to snakes).

I mean he's party chairman so not much power. He's responsible for the party machine and their campaigns - the Tories often split the role with someone in Lords who does the fundraising and party administration, and a more political MP to act as attack dog. But not this time.

By all accounts he is a relatively competent minister but, perhaps, catastrophically bad at politics (probably not a great mix for party chair).

[Zanza]

The United Kingdom dropped to place eleven among German trade partners, overtaken by Czechia. Before Brexit, it was place five.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Not sure if that includes the business rates redistribution by central government. In terms of England the level of local tax collection/powers is by some distance the lowest in the OECD.

Indeed--quick check in the U.S. 64% of tax receipts are Federal, 21% state and 15% local. It looks like Scotland is the only sub-unit even close to that.

Our "revenue assigned" figures would be really big but I don't have them handy, a huge % of Federal spending is just redistributed back to the States.

[Tamas]

Of course - and this is one for Tamas to enjoy - the devolved powers over tax have been used by Scotland and Wales. Both Labour and the SNP used it to increase the threshold at which you pay stamp duty Scotland have also slightly altered income tax rates.

Of course they did. 

[Zanza]

Not sure if that includes the business rates redistribution by central government. In terms of England the level of local tax collection/powers is by some distance the lowest in the OECD.

Indeed--quick check in the U.S. 64% of tax receipts are Federal, 21% state and 15% local. It looks like Scotland is the only sub-unit even close to that.

Our "revenue assigned" figures would be really big but I don't have them handy, a huge % of Federal spending is just redistributed back to the States.

Germany has like 40% federal, 40% state, 15% local, 5% comes from the EU.

[Syt]

I wasn't aware that Charles used to have a beard. Should have kept it IMO.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There was much excitement at the time in the tabloids 

The RN rule was that the facial hair had to be a "full set", ie tache, beard and sideburns and all joined up; and he had two weeks to grow the beard to an acceptable level. So this exciting story could fill a page or two for three weeks