Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Do the people who resign come back? Are the scattering rats from a burning pile of refuse?

[garbon]

Do the people who resign come back? Are the scattering rats from a burning pile of refuse?

Yes, many come back under the next PM.

[Barrister]

Quebec Ministers don't resign from their minister post because they are pissed at the leader. It would achieve nothing.

Do leaders ever get removed by their party between elections?

In Canada though leaders are elected by party membership, not caucus, and can only be removed as leader by the party as a whole.

Alberta just had our Premier resign, but that was only after he "won" a leadership review vote with 52% support.

[Sheilbh]

Do the people who resign come back? Are the scattering rats from a burning pile of refuse?

Oh yeah generally.

The trope is that if you wield the knife, you don't wear the crown. But almost always the resigned are brought back into the cabinet by whoever becomes the new leader. I'd be very surprised if Sunak or Javid don't end up in the next cabinet (or winning the leadership). All the people who resigned or told Thatcher to go were the core of Major's government.

I think this cabinet in general has more people who are just there for loyalty and won't get a top job in a future government.

If you resign and it doesn't work, though then you won't be back for a while.

[HVC]

Do the people who resign come back? Are the scattering rats from a burning pile of refuse?

Yes, many come back under the next PM.

So it's not really a morals thing, but escaping the taint of a political fall?

[Grey Fox]

Quebec Ministers don't resign from their minister post because they are pissed at the leader. It would achieve nothing.

Do leaders ever get removed by their party between elections?

I don't know. Our unelected leaders of parties with a chance of winning do not stick around for long. At the first signs of fracture, they leave for a greener pasture in private industry or they are uninterested in being in the opposition for a 2nd mandate. 

[Sheilbh]

In Canada though leaders are elected by party membership, not caucus, and can only be removed as leader by the party as a whole.

Alberta just had our Premier resign, but that was only after he "won" a leadership review vote with 52% support.

It's similar here with both parties. With Labour basically if you meet the requirements for nomination then you're in the final round which goes to the party membership (there used to be an electoral college of MPs, trade unions and membership). For the Tories, Tory MPs basically do knock-out stages until they reach a final two who then go to the party membership.

The Tories also have a sensible rule that if a leaders loses a vote of no confidence (which is by MPs alone) they can't run in the subsequent leadership election. Which is sensible because the job is, ultimately, leading the parliamentary party. The issue of a party/membership split was really clear with Corbyn - I think 20 of his shadow cabinet resigned and over 80% of the parliamentary party voted no confidence in him. But he ran for the leadership again and won 60% of the vote by members.

I think Labour have since changed that rule because it just doesn't work in our system if the parliamentary party don't have confidence in the leadership but have it forced on them again by the members.

It's been suggested that giving members a say over the leadership has possibly not been a great idea because they tend to be more radical/less pragmatic than MPs. I'm not sure if that's true. But I think the Corbyn experience shows you can't have a functioning leadership if the parliamentary party doesn't support it.

[garbon]

Do the people who resign come back? Are the scattering rats from a burning pile of refuse?

Yes, many come back under the next PM.

So it's not really a morals thing, but escaping the taint of a political fall?

Yeah from what I've seen since coming to the UK, it isn't a dramatic a thing as it sounds when you hear someone resigned.

[Sheilbh]

So it's not really a morals thing, but escaping the taint of a political fall?

It's political self-interest.

Sometimes you'll get the principled resignation on an issue - Robin Cook over Iraq. Or for a good principled reason - Estelle Morris because she felt she wasn't up to the job, Lord Carrington for his department's failure to predict the invasion of the Falklands.

But in general I think most resignations are either jumping before you're pushed. Some are to try and bring down the leader.

[Sheilbh]

Looks like he's going to try to fight on - at least until Monday. It looks like he's going to insist on being forced out rather than resign:

Beth Rigby
@BethRigby
NEW: PM ally tells me he 1/ is not going to resign 2/ he fights on 3/ More appointments tonight

Told that Brady told PM they'd be an elex on Mon & and could result in another confidence and could result in him losing that vote 1/
And ally adds this: "The PM conscious he has a mandate from 14m people and the only way he will leave is if the party takes that mandate off him.

Ally sends message to MPs to "Sober up and see what this is about" > so the PM wants to fight on...

I imagine the resignations will keep coming and can't see how anyone would want to join the cabinet now to replace any other resignations as it feels like that'd be more career-limiting than resigning at this point.

[Barrister]

Seems to me the problem here is mass resignations is really just a way of trying to shame the leader into quitting.

Boris Johnson doesn't seem to have a very well developed sense of personal shame though.

[alfred russel]

He should tell his party, "either you support me, or while you organize a resistance against me I will petition the queen to call a snap election."

[garbon]

Seems to me the problem here is mass resignations is really just a way of trying to shame the leader into quitting.

Boris Johnson doesn't seem to have a very well developed sense of personal shame though.

Yeah though as they resign and if others don't take their place, makes it hard for the government to function.

[Sheilbh]

Seems to me the problem here is mass resignations is really just a way of trying to shame the leader into quitting.

Boris Johnson doesn't seem to have a very well developed sense of personal shame though.

Yes - although I slightly wonder if a sense of embarrassment will develop if he really is facing losing a vote of no confidence by his party three years after winning an 80 seat majority. That would be incredibly humiliating.

With the cabinet I think there'll be some who feel they should stay on so someone is doing their job - Wallace and Truss I think have a very good defence.

But for the others - ethically staying is endorsing which they may not be comfortable with, even if they're latter day converts. Politically I think there's more downsides to staying in or joining the cabinet (with the exception of Truss and Wallace) than resigning.

Also many of the cabinet with ambitions will have hangers on and allies in the party, so it's a signal to them for the vote of no confidence (and may cause wider resignations because they'll get their allies junior ministerial jobs).

[alfred russel]

I bet $204 for a potential profit of $95 that he won't last as PM until the end of August.