Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

Tell me one country where they managed a smooth transition from heavy industry that didn't leave the workers who could not adopt in time resentful. Just one.

[Threviel]

Luxemburg?

[Sheilbh]

The UK was the workshop of the world now they are the financial service provider of...some of the world.

Yes. I mean on a net basis, the UK's financial service exports are about as big as the next three countries combined (US, Switzerland and Luxembourg). I think about 40% go to the EU (and Switzerland), 25% to the US and the ROTW makes up the rest. It would be even higher if you added in the ancillary services - lawyers, accountants, consultants etc. I feel that peaked in 2010.

[Sheilbh]

Tell me one country where they managed a smooth transition from heavy industry that didn't leave the workers who could not adopt in time resentful. Just one.

Name one that did it in a more damaging way than Britain. As I say Leipzig and Dresden - former Communist cities have overtaken Manchester and the West Midlands (which are not the poorest areas of the UK in any way). Six of the ten poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK. And I've a tonne of charts with countries that have de-industrialised like, say, Germany (14 UK regions poorer than their poorest region), Belgium and France (6 regions poorer than their poorest), Austria and the Scandis and the Netherlands (17 regions poorer). We're not like the rest of Northern Europe on this.

Our spread of regional economies is more similar to Italy or Spain, or even the Czech Republic and Slovakia than the rest of Northern Europe. I think that's because of choices - not least no industrial strategy, no plan, no attempt to manage the transition. Just embracing the whirlwind of creative destruction.

[Tamas]

Tell me one country where they managed a smooth transition from heavy industry that didn't leave the workers who could not adopt in time resentful. Just one.

Name one that did it in a more damaging way than Britain. As I say Leipzig and Dresden - former Communist cities have overtaken Manchester and the West Midlands (which are not the poorest areas of the UK in any way). Six of the ten poorest regions in Northern Europe are in the UK. And I've a tonne of charts with countries that have de-industrialised like, say, Germany (14 UK regions poorer than their poorest region), Belgium and France (6 regions poorer than their poorest), Austria and the Scandis and the Netherlands (17 regions poorer). We're not like the rest of Northern Europe on this.

Our spread of regional economies is more similar to Italy or Spain, or even the Czech Republic and Slovakia than the rest of Northern Europe. I think that's because of choices - not least no industrial strategy, no plan, no attempt to manage the transition. Just embracing the whirlwind of creative destruction.

Alright, fair enough.

[Zanza]

No one in Sweden today thinks about the big textile and ship building industries of the mid-20th century that were wiped out in the 70s and 80s. Because we moved on and started Mojang and shit. You can't live your life through the rear-view mirror.

Sweden's industry has a much higher share of the GDP than in the UK (27% to 17%), so deindustrialisation was not nearly as severe in Sweden as in the UK.

[Zanza]

East Germany actually has quite a bit of manufacturing, which is even growung, but it misses higher value-add industrial jobs in R&D or administration as those are typically near HQs and there are few bigger companies from East Germany.   

[PDH]

East Germany actually has quite a bit of manufacturing, which is even growung, but it misses higher value-add industrial jobs in R&D or administration as those are typically near HQs and there are few bigger companies from East Germany.

Are they still leading in the production of Neo-Nazis though?  I mean, outside of America.

[Zanza]

Yes, only the bigger cities like Leipzig, Dresden, Erfurt etc. Are developing well. The countryside not so much and that's where the Nazis come from mainly.

[Sheilbh]

Yes, only the bigger cities like Leipzig, Dresden, Erfurt etc. Are developing well. The countryside not so much and that's where the Nazis come from mainly.

This is one of the big issues in the UK. E.g. this of the North:


Generally the cities are still the poorest areas, the countryside is far better off. Obviously cities are a better driver of growth than suburb and countryside. But we are starting from a very, very low base. Manchester and Liverpool are starting to do well, Hull put a lot of work in their city of culture application. But the truth they were basically just left to rot and decline for a few decades until New Labour. A lot of that spending was cut by the coalition, so I feel like it's only really the areas that had a bit of critical mass - like Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc - that can keep it going.

[Duque de Bragança]

Yes, only the bigger cities like Leipzig, Dresden, Erfurt etc. Are developing well. The countryside not so much and that's where the Nazis come from mainly.

Leipzig is now even infamous for hipsters.
Lipsian hipsters...

[Tamas]

I often feel that the UK has an unhealthier social attitude toward drinking than Hungary.

For example, I don't think such a jovial celebration of alcoholism (with then similar comments under it highlighted for posterity) would ever be published:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/29/i-started-lockdown-with-the-focus-of-sarah-connor-in-terminator-now-im-drinking-more-than-ever

[garbon]

I often feel that the UK has an unhealthier social attitude toward drinking than Hungary.

For example, I don't think such a jovial celebration of alcoholism (with then similar comments under it highlighted for posterity) would ever be published:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/29/i-started-lockdown-with-the-focus-of-sarah-connor-in-terminator-now-im-drinking-more-than-ever

Agreed, I haven't really seen much by way of it being a negative how much more drinking is happening in the UK.

Personally, we made the switch of only having a few drinks at the weekend as it was all too easy to slip into a drink everyday.

[The Brain]

No one in Sweden today thinks about the big textile and ship building industries of the mid-20th century that were wiped out in the 70s and 80s. Because we moved on and started Mojang and shit. You can't live your life through the rear-view mirror.

Sweden's industry has a much higher share of the GDP than in the UK (27% to 17%), so deindustrialisation was not nearly as severe in Sweden as in the UK.

What were the numbers in 1950?

[Sheilbh]

No one in Sweden today thinks about the big textile and ship building industries of the mid-20th century that were wiped out in the 70s and 80s. Because we moved on and started Mojang and shit. You can't live your life through the rear-view mirror.

Sweden's industry has a much higher share of the GDP than in the UK (27% to 17%), so deindustrialisation was not nearly as severe in Sweden as in the UK.

What were the numbers in 1950?

Not sure for Sweden. But we always had a very strong services sector - the City of London hasn't only existed since Thatcher's Big Bang. So in 1948 46% of UK GDP was services, 42% production, 6% agriculture and 6% construction (which is about the same now). That's all I can find but there'll obviously be immediate post-war weirdness in those numbers.