The destruction of the wage class, the politics of resentment and Donald Trump

[garbon]

Should the white working class believe that mass unskilled immigration from the 3rd world is good for them?

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

At least I think that's what you were referring to when you said 'mass unskilled immigration from the 3rd world.'

[Eddie Teach]

I think Obama's attempt to have an immigration bill may have helped push it back to the forefront. And it's not like it ever was a non-issue.

[garbon]

I think Obama's attempt to have an immigration bill may have helped push it back to the forefront. And it's not like it ever was a non-issue.

I guess it is good that I didn't say that, no?

[Syt]

Should the white working class believe that mass unskilled immigration from the 3rd world is good for them?

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

Actual facts and what people who don't regularly read the news *feel* the facts are are often different. See also: crime rates.

[garbon]

Should the white working class believe that mass unskilled immigration from the 3rd world is good for them?

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

Actual facts and what people who don't regularly read the news *feel* the facts are are often different. See also: crime rates.

Well actually, I think reading/watching the news is what leads to altered perceptions with regards to crime rates.

[alfred russel]

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

Actually, I think the opposite is true--what you just said is a reason for it to be at the forefront now. Illegal immigration isn't down from a decade ago because of increased enforcement. It is down because the economic opportunities are dwindling for the types of jobs the immigrants have had available to them. That is something that also affects the citizens they were competing with for jobs. It doesn't seem illogical for those people to become increasingly desperate.

[Razgovory]

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

Actually, I think the opposite is true--what you just said is a reason for it to be at the forefront now. Illegal immigration isn't down from a decade ago because of increased enforcement. It is down because the economic opportunities are dwindling for the types of jobs the immigrants have had available to them. That is something that also affects the citizens they were competing with for jobs. It doesn't seem illogical for those people to become increasingly desperate.

You sure that's true?  I mean, it was true seven years ago when unemployment was at nine percent, but unemployment is nearly half of what it was back in 2009.

[alfred russel]

No, but then a quick google search reveals that the number of estimated illegal immigrants present in the country is down from over a decade ago - and estimates show America is receiving fewer new illegal immigrants year over year. So seems like an odd time to make that one's primary voting issue.

Actually, I think the opposite is true--what you just said is a reason for it to be at the forefront now. Illegal immigration isn't down from a decade ago because of increased enforcement. It is down because the economic opportunities are dwindling for the types of jobs the immigrants have had available to them. That is something that also affects the citizens they were competing with for jobs. It doesn't seem illogical for those people to become increasingly desperate.

You sure that's true?  I mean, it was true seven years ago when unemployment was at nine percent, but unemployment is nearly half of what it was back in 2009.

I have no idea. garbon posted it.

[LaCroix]

it's because mexico doesn't suck so much nowadays. iirc, there have been threads on this

@mass migration people think this is happening

[Razgovory]

Mexico still sucks.

[alfred russel]

it's because mexico doesn't suck so much nowadays. iirc, there have been threads on this

I really don't know what has been happening since 2009 to immigration numbers, but Mexico is not exactly kicking ass at the moment, and the major drop in 2009 was almost certainly the result of what was going on in the US, as Mexico was probably hurt worse by the downturn.

[Razgovory]

There's also that quasi-civil war thing, going on.

[LaCroix]

coulda sworn there were a few articles years back that suggested that.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-mexican-immigration-20151118-story.html

sounds like lots of factors, but the main one probably being that the crash knocked the perception of america as a rich country with $ to everyone who comes.

(edit) still don't buy the "america actually doesn't have jobs for immigrants," because minsky/yi/one of the economic guys keeps posting how mere wage/shitty employment has risen in the past several years rather than good employment. wage employment is immigrant employment, so it doesn't sound like their economic opportunities here have dwindled.

[alfred russel]

(edit) still don't buy the "america actually doesn't have jobs for immigrants," because minsky/yi/one of the economic guys keeps posting how mere wage/shitty employment has risen in the past several years rather than good employment. wage employment is immigrant employment, so it doesn't sound like their economic opportunities here have dwindled.

I can't speak for all the low skilled immigrants that come here, but I doubt they are too different than most of my ancestors that came just over a century ago. That is, I think they are hoping more out of immigrating than a minimum wage job for themselves and something similar for their kids.

[LaCroix]

I can't speak for all the low skilled immigrants that come here, but I doubt they are too different than most of my ancestors that came just over a century ago. That is, I think they are hoping more out of immigrating than a minimum wage job for themselves and something similar for their kids.

this is a kinda weird response

(1) pretty sure mexican illegal immigrants are low-skilled laborers and always have been
(2) illegal immigrants are unlikely to read up on the economist/whatever news sources are saying wage employment is up but non-wage employment remains down. they jump over and either get a job or they don't. if the mcjobs are on the rise, then the illegal immigrant has a job - goal obtained

maybe this is what happened-

the article mentioned an economic slump in 1990s mexico. a decade of poor economic conditions there resulted in people jumping over because it was easy and cheap, why not. over the years, it's gotten less easy and more expensive. and the 1990s economic slump is no longer the case. so maybe the 1990s slump created a situation where by 2000~ tons of mexicans were eager to jump over. this continued (despite it becoming increasingly more expensive/less easy to jump over) because everyone thought "america = $." then the crash happened, and even wage employment jobs were hard to come by. so, perceptions changed. while the expense/ease of jumping over has always been considered, it was trumped by positive perception. this perception being no longer the case, the expense/ease coupled with new negative perception means fewer mexicans jumping over.