Saudi Arabia and the "trillion dollar gambit"

[Martinus]

For the record, you think poorly.  Sharia "allows" none of these things.

So you are now an expert on Sharia, too? 

[grumbler]

For the record, you think poorly.  Sharia "allows" none of these things.

So you are now an expert on Sharia, too? 

No, I am simply not ignorant regarding Sharia law, like you.

[Berkut]

Ok let me put it in a way you nerds will understand: Saudi Arabia is Lawful Evil, ISIS is Chaotic Evil. I know some neckbeards like you sometimes had a boner for Lawful Evil, but to me both are just as evil.

Let me put it this way to you:

Saudi Arabia, no matter what their laws are, does not actually inflict more than a tiny fraction of the actual human suffering and misery that ISIS does.

There is a difference between theoretical moral outrage from your comfy chair, and actual real world misery based on things that are actually happen to actual, real people. The real world is actually not a Dungeons and Dragons game.

[Razgovory]

Look nobody is saying that Saudi Arabia is nice place, or that they aren't backward fuckwits.  But they are backward fuckwits we can deal with, that aren't conquering territory, they aren't committing genocide and they aren't enslaving people.  I strongly suspect you are looking at this through the lens of homosexual rights, which are not good in either place but that's not the end all of government.

Marty, I think it was you who brought up Hitler and Stalin, and I think that's a good analogy (though you equated the two and I do not).  Why is Stalin better then Hitler?  Well, Hitler's plan was to exterminate 80% of the Polish population and reduce the rest of serfs.  Stalin planned to kill only about 1% of the Poles and then oppress the rest.  If Hitler's plan went through you likely would never have been born.  Poland under Stalin, you do get to be born, see the the Soviet Union fall and post on Languish.

ISIS like Hitler, exterminates, enslaves and conquers.  Saudi Arabia, like the Soviet Union is cruel and oppressive, but if you keep your head down you have good chance to survive.

[The Brain]

Amazing that there's still Communist apologists.

[grumbler]

Amazing that there's still Communist apologists.

Amazing that you posted such a non sequitur.

[mongers]

......
Marty, I think it was you who brought up Hitler and Stalin, and I think that's a good analogy (though you equated the two and I do not).  Why is Stalin better then Hitler?  Well, Hitler's plan was to exterminate 80% of the Polish population and reduce the rest of serfs.  Stalin planned to kill only about 1% of the Poles and then oppress the rest.  If Hitler's plan went through you likely would never have been born.  Poland under Stalin, you do get to be born, see the the Soviet Union fall and post on Languish.

.....

But what if Hitler went on to invent Languish?



edit:
OK, on 2nd thoughts maybe he did?

[The Minsky Moment]

So this thread isn't about the Aramco flotation?

Not clear to me that the Saudis had another viable move, BTW.  From the 11/2014 OPEC meeting to 9/2015 (the latest data), Saudi production is up 550K barrels a day.  But Iraq is up 1 million.  It seems very unlikely that Saudi restraint would have kept down Iraqi production growth.

[DGuller]

Poland under Stalin, you do get to be born, see the the Soviet Union fall and post on Languish.

[Martinus]

Look nobody is saying that Saudi Arabia is nice place, or that they aren't backward fuckwits.  But they are backward fuckwits we can deal with, that aren't conquering territory, they aren't committing genocide and they aren't enslaving people.  I strongly suspect you are looking at this through the lens of homosexual rights, which are not good in either place but that's not the end all of government.

Marty, I think it was you who brought up Hitler and Stalin, and I think that's a good analogy (though you equated the two and I do not).  Why is Stalin better then Hitler?  Well, Hitler's plan was to exterminate 80% of the Polish population and reduce the rest of serfs.  Stalin planned to kill only about 1% of the Poles and then oppress the rest.  If Hitler's plan went through you likely would never have been born.  Poland under Stalin, you do get to be born, see the the Soviet Union fall and post on Languish.

ISIS like Hitler, exterminates, enslaves and conquers.  Saudi Arabia, like the Soviet Union is cruel and oppressive, but if you keep your head down you have good chance to survive.

Ok so I guess we are in agreement then. As I said I do recognise difference between Saudis and ISIS and to me it is comparable to Stalin vs. Hitler. Similarly, while I do see the difference between Stalin and Hitler, I refuse to engage in a "Stalin was better than Hitler" exercise - both were monsters.

At least with Stalin and Hitler, the West allied with Stalin only to the extent it needed to beat Hitler - the alliance with the Saudis is much more morally turpid.

[Razgovory]

Saying "both were monsters" is unhelpful.  Idi Amin and the Boston strangler were monsters.  You chances of being killed by Albert DeSalvo and while in Boston is much lower then your chance of being killed by Idi Amin in Uganda. You are using broad terms to encompass things of different magnitude, different modus opperendi, different standards and different actions.

If you walked into ISIS territory, you'd almost certainly be kidnapped and immediately killed.  In Saudi Arabia you would not.  If you started committing blasphemy in Saudi Arabia they might punish you, but in all likely hood the Polish government could get you out of there.  In ISIS territory you would already have been kidnapped and killed.  If you started to have sex with men in Saudi Arabia the Saudi government probably wouldn't know, but if they found out you might be punished but once again your Polish citizenship may save you.  In ISIS territory you wouldn't have the chance due the immediate capture and execution.  Any requests from the Polish government would fall on deaf ears.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Saudi Arabia, no matter what their laws are, does not actually inflict more than a tiny fraction of the actual human suffering and misery that ISIS does.

does that include or exclude the misery the Saudi's have wrought by exporting Salafism to all four corners of the world?

[Berkut]

Saudi Arabia, no matter what their laws are, does not actually inflict more than a tiny fraction of the actual human suffering and misery that ISIS does.

does that include or exclude the misery the Saudi's have wrought by exporting Salafism to all four corners of the world?

A good point, but somewhat indirect of what we are discussing.

[dps]

ISIS like Hitler, exterminates, enslaves and conquers.  Saudi Arabia, like the Soviet Union is cruel and oppressive, but if you keep your head down you have good chance to survive.

Given the choice, I'd much rather take my chances on surviving in Saudi Arabia than in Stalin's USSR.

[Razgovory]

ISIS like Hitler, exterminates, enslaves and conquers.  Saudi Arabia, like the Soviet Union is cruel and oppressive, but if you keep your head down you have good chance to survive.

Given the choice, I'd much rather take my chances on surviving in Saudi Arabia than in Stalin's USSR.

Well, yeah.