Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Malthus]

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.

Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

This account is only true of a small minority, but it has become a very compelling theme for certain political points of view.

The reality is that US support for Israel is not confined to evangelicals, and even among evangelicals, there are numerous reasons for it.

You may well believe these reasons are mistaken (or an "excuse" as you put it), but if you ignore their existence, you will have a distorted opinion of why the situation exists.

[Razgovory]

I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.

[Josquius]

I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.

Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

[Tonitrus]

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.

Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

I don't think it does...for the most part.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 

The tragedy of the Israel/Palestinian divide, is that it likely really is unsolvable without one side destroying or driving out the other...and trying to gauge which side is worse, or acts worse, is probably futile...as either side, if in a superior position (as Israel is now), would undoubtedly act in varying degrees of shitiness towards each other.

[viper37]

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.

Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 

I don't see Israel as free of corruption and theocracy.  Religious fringe movements get a lot of influence on government policies, as much as US Evangilicals do, for a fraction of the number.  And corruption, well, I think Israel's as had a few shining examples of it.
I don't Israël as being vastly superior to Jordan, or even Egypt.  If Palestinians protests, they'll be mowed down like the Egyptian does to its own population.  Being less theocratic than Israel and Saudi Arabia ain't much of an achievement, imho.

[Razgovory]

I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.

Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

[Malthus]

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.

Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

And I agree with Teach, there is certainly a presence on the American right, that is not of the religious-nuttery bent that sees Israel as a lone democracy in a region of authoritarian/corrupt/theocratic political nightmares.  And they're not wrong. 

I don't see Israel as free of corruption and theocracy.  Religious fringe movements get a lot of influence on government policies, as much as US Evangilicals do, for a fraction of the number.  And corruption, well, I think Israel's as had a few shining examples of it.
I don't Israël as being vastly superior to Jordan, or even Egypt.  If Palestinians protests, they'll be mowed down like the Egyptian does to its own population.  Being less theocratic than Israel and Saudi Arabia ain't much of an achievement, imho.

Israel has plenty of corruption - the difference is, it has courts who can, and do, charge and convict the corrupt. Even Israeli PMs have been convicted.

Israel has plenty of religious nut jobs, and the Israeli electoral system gives them some influence, but their influence tends to be confined to certain areas (like upholding archaic marriage laws or giving social assistance to religious students). This is irritating to the largely secular majority, but hardly makes Israel a theocracy. The current Israeli government, by the way, has none of the traditional Jewish religious lunatics - but does have an Islamic party member, so go figure.

If you don't think this is superior to Egypt (which is run by a military dictatorship that overthrew an Islamic government) or Jordan (which is run by an actual heriditary monarch), you are delusional.

[Malthus]

In terms of corruption, Israel ranks 35 in the world (the US ranks 25).

Egypt ranks 117, and Jordan at 60.

https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/united-states

[Habbaku]

I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.

Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.

[The Brain]

Israel differs from its neighbors by being Jewish and by being democratic. People who hate Israel do it for one or both of these reasons.

[Josquius]

I'm always surprised by people who have no use for theocracy in their country but are basically okay with it in Gaza.

Pretty sure they would be happy if gaza were wiped out.

He's talking about you, dude.

That's a bizzare leap if so.
The sort of thing you expect of the fundies we are laughing at - you don't think Israel is an absolutely perfect and saintly country that should be supported beyond question in everything then you must love hamas and want them to rule here too.

[The Brain]

[alfred russel]

As Toni mentioned, in order to understand why the US Right supports Israel, you have to understand North American Evangelicals and their influence on the Republican party.  They do not care about the politics within Israel.  They care about what they think is the pivotal role Israel has within their warped views about the end of the world, and how to accomplish it.  They are essentially a death cult praying for the end of the world.

Yeah. I've heard this take before and it does make sense.
Also explains their lack of belief in global warming et al.
They just fundamentally see the world as temporary and the end of the world as a good thing.

Israel is a western democracy beset by jihadists bent on its destruction, it's not just evangelicals.

Maybe in 1970.
This excuse wears thin now.

Israel just had a prime minister ousted through an election and an arab party forming part of the governing coalition.

Not sure why the "excuse" is wearing thin now.

[Valmy]

Israel irritates me because for over 25 years they have, for the most part, undermined and flaunted our efforts in the Middle East through their nationalistic land grabbing. And then I get mad at my government for continually letting Israel get away with it instead of playing hardball.

But hopefully with one of the key sources of all this malignance being removed this will stop.

[Valmy]

Israel just had a prime minister ousted through an election and an arab party forming part of the governing coalition.

Not sure why the "excuse" is wearing thin now.

Probably because of all the things that have happened since 1995? Sure this development is good but in order for it to not wear thin we need to see a change in policy.