Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Syt]

[Zoupa]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

Good point. Derspiess makes a good point too. I don't know. It's kinda like porn I guess? You know it when you see it.

[Valmy]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

That is an important distinction and one I do not really understand. If it was made clear and the rules established I would have no problem going along with them. As it is, whatever some asshole decides offends them on the internet is now randomly announced as a crime.

I mean Japanese and Chinese and Indian culture are also big time powerhouses now. Are those fair game?

[Valmy]

Wait. Citizen's United? WTF?

I mean generally I do support most of those things.

[Berkut]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

Indeed.

It is trivial to mock the weak when you are strong.

I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

I think it is comparable to BLM - it is easy to point out that if you are worried about black lives, you should spend a lot more time worrying about black on black violence rather than police on black violence. That is simply and obviously true.

But I understand that it isn't truly about police violence, not really. It is about a systemic and persistent cultural world where black lives are treated as second class. Where black children get shitty educations, black women have a terrible social structure, and black men are put in prison at rates that white people would never, ever, EVER tolerate.  It isn't really about the problem of cops shooting black people, it is about so much more, that is just the manifestation of the frustration and rage, something tangible to be pissed off about.

Do I think native Americans look at some high school chick dressed up as "Hot Pocahontas" as the true crux of their beef with American society? Of course not. But if you cannot understand that they are in fact pissed off for pretty damn good reasons, you aren't trying to think very much at all.

[Valmy]

I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.

[Duque de Bragança]

I have trouble understanding cultural appropriation, we don't have a similar word (or even concept I think) in french.

Outrageous.  Do you also not have terms for things like Fat Acceptance and Fat Shaming??

Chillax

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptation_des_gros#Historique

Fat acceptance :acceptation des gros, as per the link.
Fat shaming would be grossophobie. First time I heard it, i thought it was a joke.
Not dead white male enough besides IMO. Needs more latinised ancient greek instead of a low Latin origin cognate extremely used in common parlance (gros).

[Jacob]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

And, in fact, American and French culture can be rather heavy handed in the enforcement of how people conform with the parts of their culture they deem significant - see kerfuffles over respecting the flag and national anthem in the US and the one about the wearing of hijab and burkinis in France.

That Native Americans are in a position where their strongest move is to say "hey, please don't make a joke out of the bits of our culture that haven't been wiped out" and that makes some people feel a little bit guilty does not make the request unreasonable, IMO.

It's easy enough for a French guy in France to laugh off a stereotype of French people (say baguettes and garlic and berets), because he's in a pretty good spot for it to never matter. If you're Franco-Ontarian and live in a place where people tell you to "speak white", harass your kids, and deny you employment opportunities then it's a different matter.

[Oexmelin]

Good point. Derspiess makes a good point too. I don't know. It's kinda like porn I guess? You know it when you see it.

Yes. I think it is important, at the very least, to listen to what is being said. I am not sure where I stand myself about it. I suspect that people who raise the issue of cultural appropriation have a point when they say that some of the strong reactions against the concept stems from the fact that the people who are being told something is inappropriate, have not been told very often, and have not had to think very deeply that cultural transgressions can have important consequences.

[Zanza]

The main difference, which seems to escape these casual conversations, is that French culture, or American culture, is backed by powerful industries, hold a dominant space in politics, and in the market, is promoted by extremely powerful states, and generally speaking, can dictate other terms of engagement about themselves than cheap stereotypes.

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

[Valmy]

And, in fact, American and French culture can be rather heavy handed in the enforcement of how people conform with the parts of their culture they deem significant - see kerfuffles over respecting the flag and national anthem in the US and the one about the wearing of hijab and burkinis in France.

We are heavy handed in respecting the flag? How? By some people being angry about it on Facebook and others being supportive? I couldn't disagree with this smear more. People not liking a gesture is not the same as heavy handed enforcement.

[Berkut]

I think the idea of cultural appropriation is pretty silly, really. But I understand where it is coming from, and I understand why people would feel pissed off about what has happened to their values and history.

Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.

I guess.

I think it is more dangerous to just continue on like nothing is wrong, because that way leads to social reform by violence.

I think it is kind of duplicitous to bitch much about the form that the oppressed use to express their anger at being treated like shit. It seems to me like an excuse to dismiss it out of hand in favor of the status quo. I think that is both unfair, and dangerous.

By definition the weak have little power to effect change. If they had power and means to effect change, they would have done so already - so perforce their expression of dis-satisfaction will by necessity often be indirect or even seem silly or misleading. So it is easy to mock concepts like BLM, or kneeling during the anthem, or complaining about cultural appropriation. But WTF? It's like we are kicking people in the teeth over and over again, and then complaining that we can't understand them because they don't talk clearly.

[Oexmelin]

Yes I get where it is coming from. I am even a bit sympathetic to that place. But I find it a dangerous idea in its vagueness.

I don't see where the danger is. It is a political point: that is to say, it  is there to be discussed and debated, and the people bringing it to the forefront are trying to bring it on *their* terms, rather than ours - as Berkut mentioned. 

[The Brain]

I don't think dividing us into strong and weak cultures is the way forward. Traditional Swedish culture has been taking an enormous beating the past 100 years from mighty cultures from across the sea. Who gives a flying fuck?

[Oexmelin]

We made selling traditional Bavarian dresses and beer festivals to foreigners "appropriating" these customs a booming industry. 

Yes. But somehow, I don't see this industry thriving on another, different, 1940s stereotype about Bavarians.