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Started by Syt, December 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

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Barrister

Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

To be fair, it seems not that Musk is against rail in general, but the California high speed rail project.  Which has been something of a boondoggle, since even 14 years  after it was approved by California voters it is still mired in legal challenges and has only managed to start building a route through the central valley, and not anywhere near the Bay area or LA, and may not be be complete until 2030.
Quote from: crazy canuckBB's treatment is consistent with one who defends positions taken by the conservative wing of the Conservatives.

Gups

Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 20, 2022, 02:01:14 PMI think he actually admitted to that publicly.

Apparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

Not really, according to the biographer himself.

https://jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460

"When I spoke with Vance, who is currently a senior writer at Bloomberg, he called Marx's conclusion "vaguely accurate but a disingenuous take on the situation." From Vance's point of view, Musk's initial announcements on Hyperloop were "more of a reaction to how underwhelming California's high-speed rail [proposal] was.""

Berkut

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 20, 2022, 02:05:36 PMApparently he told his biographer that: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1167410460125097990

If Musk told him that, why does the biographer write "at the time it seemed....?"
I (and others) pointed out previously that Musk did not actually tell his biographer that, which is obvious if you actually read what was claimed.

Its funny, I suspect every single person in this thread went over that argument just a couple months ago, and yet, still people state something as fact that is clearly opinion, as if it were fact.

Cognitive dissonance combined with status virtue signalling is a amazingly powerful combination.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Jacob

Quote from: Gups on September 20, 2022, 02:18:36 PMNot really, according to the biographer himself.

https://jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460

"When I spoke with Vance, who is currently a senior writer at Bloomberg, he called Marx's conclusion "vaguely accurate but a disingenuous take on the situation." From Vance's point of view, Musk's initial announcements on Hyperloop were "more of a reaction to how underwhelming California's high-speed rail [proposal] was.""

Fair enough then.

Josquius

#13729
Interesting to see the pile on on that one invented claim (who even brought that up?) and no consideration for how that claim took off...
Note the biographer there saying the claim was vaguely accurate. Something doesn't have to be a devious bond villain plot to have an ulterior motive.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 06:37:56 AM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 05:31:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:29:51 AMIf he's "clearly stating" his opposition to climate change mitigation you don't need a difference, do you?
Yes. Context matters. The same statement means something very different if randomly muttered in a pub vs. being said amidst a pattern of related action.


QuoteHe's spent billions on tunneling.  Does not specifically undermine support for public transport.
For cars.
The reasoning behind it specifically been an attack on public transport.

You mentioned irrelevant stuff and forgot hyperloop.

I mentioned irrelevant stuff because you were horribly vague when you said he's spent billions on silly ideas (note the plural) specifically to undermine support for public transport.

You could have saved us an immense amount of time if instead of saying conservatives like EVs because they think we don't have to do anything else about climate change you had said by conservatives I mean Elon Musk and by we don't have to do anything about climate change you had said Elon said public transport is a pain in the ass and he owns a tunneling company that you claim is specifically for cars.

So not that we've managed to actually get to the issue, please tell me how you know The Boring Company is specifically for cars.  I have never heard of this before.

This is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThis is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

I agree about silly.

I strongly suspect that random internet nutters never said anything that could be reasonably interpreted as "we're conservative, and because of EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."

That The Boring Company did the Vegas Loop and the Vegas Loop is a tunnel for cars does not prove that The Boring Company only does car tunnels. 


grumbler

Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThe boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

What a bizarre and dishonest video.  Los Vegas did not, in fact, invest heavily in the LV Loop.  It spent nothing.  The Boring Company has shouldered all costs and will recoup them (it believes) from fares.

Anyone can make a video with selective truth and outright lies.  Republican politicians in the US do exactly what this guys does.  Why anyone would share such a video, though, is beyond me.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

The similarity in tactics to what the Trumpist's do is rather alarming.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Valmy

Oh is Adam Something bad now? I just thought he was a Hungarian with an unhealthy love of trains and urban planning.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 20, 2022, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Josquius on September 20, 2022, 03:31:27 PMThis is getting simply silly.

I actually originally meant random Internet nutters, given the thread we are in and the context of the post.
Musk however is the hero of these sorts and the most prominent of them. Its in him you see the core of their ideology.

The boring company just for cars - bizzare you question this one. This is well established from the very foundational concepts of its work. How it works in practice is even worse.

https://youtu.be/QvK2i9Jxy5c

I agree about silly.

I strongly suspect that random internet nutters never said anything that could be reasonably interpreted as "we're conservative, and because of EVs we don't need to do anything else about climate change."


Because thats not the way people actually talk?
That makes no sense.

QuoteBoring Company did the Vegas Loop and the Vegas Loop is a tunnel for cars does not prove that The Boring Company only does car tunnels. 
So a company only does one thing and that doesn't prove that they're a company that only does one thing?
....um...ok.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:23:43 AMBecause thats not the way people actually talk?
That makes no sense.

That's the debate we're having.  I, and many others, disagree with your conclusion that Elon's statement about how taking public transportation sucks combined with the fact that The Boring Company's only project so far has been an underground Tesla amusement ride means he thinks "since we have EVs we don't need to worry any more about climate change."  That leads me to believe your conclusion about these internet nutters is similarly dubious.

QuoteSo a company only does one thing and that doesn't prove that they're a company that only does one thing?
....um...ok.

It makes as much sense to claim The Boring Company only does projects in Las Vegas.

They're technically capable of doing other projects.  There's nothing in the company charter AFAIK that says they will not participate in subway projects.  Musk has not made any public pronouncements to this effect AFAIK.  There are no leaked internal documents to the same effect.

Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 21, 2022, 06:37:01 AMThat's the debate we're having.  I, and many others, disagree with your conclusion that Elon's statement about how taking public transportation sucks combined with the fact that The Boring Company's only project so far has been an underground Tesla amusement ride means he thinks "since we have EVs we don't need to worry any more about climate change."  That leads me to believe your conclusion about these internet nutters is similarly dubious.
More fool you then.
All evidence suggests I'm right about Musk and you'll find people who believe any combination of things under the sun online. Weird to disbelieve I've met some insignificant people who believed a particular nutty thing.

QuoteIt makes as much sense to claim The Boring Company only does projects in Las Vegas.

They're technically capable of doing other projects.  There's nothing in the company charter AFAIK that says they will not participate in subway projects.  Musk has not made any public pronouncements to this effect AFAIK.  There are no leaked internal documents to the same effect.
Their tunnels are too narrow for subways. From their initial concepts through to their inferior execution they've always been about cars with a loose connection to the hyperloop stuff on the side. They're specifically positioned against subways.

LV is the only one they've delivered but they have been actively trying to get others off the ground along the same lines.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on September 21, 2022, 06:56:11 AMAll evidence suggests I'm right about Musk

Not the evidence you've presented so far.

grumbler

Quote from: Valmy on September 20, 2022, 10:20:48 PMOh is Adam Something bad now? I just thought he was a Hungarian with an unhealthy love of trains and urban planning.

Whether he is good or nbad is for you to decide.  What he is, though, is dishonest about the Vegas Loop.

There are plenty of intellectual reasons to believe that the type of shoestring operation the Boring Company is running in Vegas will fail.  Making up emotional shit up is unnecessary.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Syt

If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

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