Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

Started by Syt, November 17, 2015, 05:50:30 AM

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Habbaku

Why leap to the simpler explanation when a more convoluted one that lets you hurl insults is available?
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

derspiess

So McConnell is going to schedule a vote on the Green New Deal.  The bill's Senate sponsor (Markey, D-MA) is hacked off about it, calling it "sabotage" :lol:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Habbaku

On the face of it, I support McConnell on this. Why shouldn't the GND be brought to a floor vote? Are the Democrats irate that they haven't been given enough time to sell it, or...?
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Maximus

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2019, 08:59:47 PM
"I want you to panic"

Good clear message - greeted by polite applause by the Davos crowd

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video
It's a good message, made the more impressive by the fact that she has autism and selective mutism. She's done a TED talk as well.

mongers

Quote from: Maximus on February 13, 2019, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 29, 2019, 08:59:47 PM
"I want you to panic"

Good clear message - greeted by polite applause by the Davos crowd

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video
It's a good message, made the more impressive by the fact that she has autism and selective mutism. She's done a TED talk as well.

Most of us olds have failed the place.

Hoping the younger ones don't become as cynical as my generation.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Berkut

Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2019, 09:13:37 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 13, 2019, 08:21:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 07:33:29 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 13, 2019, 04:10:47 AM
On the transport side, you can go electric, but the effect is limited if power generation still relies heavily on fossil fuels.  You burn indirectly instead of directly. So the trick is replacing coal and oil generation with say nuclear and solar. But it's very hard to change the energy generation mix in a material way very quickly.  Power generation facilities have high capital costs and fairly long lead times to construct so unless you are willing to make massive Manhattan Project style commitments it is hard to meaningfully move the energy mix over short periods of time. That is especially true for nuclear: the plants take years and years to build and commission, cost gobs of money, and face bottlenecks due to the loss of qualified engineers during the lost decades.  Solar is a bit easier but the tricky part is you need to find a site that is reasonable near existing transmission lines and places where there is demand. The best places to site solar are on dry level land. But a lot of the energy demand is in damp places like the Midwest, or hilly places like California, or both like the northeast. Solar also has the problem of variability so absent big immediate breakthroughs in storage tech, there are limits to its contribution to the total energy mix.

The other route is capture tech which is still in the speculative stage in terms of practical scalable application.

We waited to long to do it properly, so now we do need technological panaceas and fast.  That means immediate implementation of Moon Program/Manhttan Project level crash R&D programs in key areas like storage and capture, creating multi-trillion infrastructure banks to fund clean generation facilities ASAP, dropping aversion to nuclear and hoping the industry can come up with a safe and viable cost-efficient design, and somehow find or train up enough qualified people to build and run them fast.


:lmfao:

An excellent and incisive intellectual response.  When Berkut sees these, he cannot criticize it as he properly does the facile and intellectually lazy one-smiley responses.  :thumbsup:

I could be wrong, but I read that as 'skepticism that we, as a society, have the collective foresight and strength of will to do this'.

Yes, this.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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crazy canuck

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 13, 2019, 04:10:47 AM
We waited to long to do it properly, so now we do need technological panaceas and fast.  That means immediate implementation of Moon Program/Manhttan Project level crash R&D programs in key areas like storage and capture, creating multi-trillion infrastructure banks to fund clean generation facilities ASAP, dropping aversion to nuclear and hoping the industry can come up with a safe and viable cost-efficient design, and somehow find or train up enough qualified people to build and run them fast.

And we are probably at the point where nation states doing their own thing is not viable.  There is going to have to be intense international cooperation to develop the energy 2.0 grid that will be necessary.

Berkut's response would also be appropriate here.


The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Yes, this.

There are two other options.  One is an immediate and radical alteration in human lifestyles to massively reduce energy usage.  The other is to face trillions of dollars of economic losses.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

Quote from: derspiess on February 13, 2019, 01:16:38 PM
So McConnell is going to schedule a vote on the Green New Deal.  The bill's Senate sponsor (Markey, D-MA) is hacked off about it, calling it "sabotage" :lol:

I mean...why not? It is not like they were ever going to get the votes in the Senate to pass it. And even if they did it would be vetoed. So Markey should be happy about the opportunity to symbolically vote for this and not actually have to worry about what happens if it passes.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2019, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Yes, this.

There are two other options.  One is an immediate and radical alteration in human lifestyles to massively reduce energy usage.  The other is to face trillions of dollars of economic losses.


I think we are going to use Brexit as our model and just sort of muddle through.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

the difference being that on the day before 2 degrees of warming hits, we can't have a snap referendum to reverse the decision.

Berkut

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2019, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Yes, this.

There are two other options.  One is an immediate and radical alteration in human lifestyles to massively reduce energy usage.  The other is to face trillions of dollars of economic losses.


...and we will pick option 3, do nothing.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Valmy

Quote from: Berkut on February 14, 2019, 11:52:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2019, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Yes, this.

There are two other options.  One is an immediate and radical alteration in human lifestyles to massively reduce energy usage.  The other is to face trillions of dollars of economic losses.


...and we will pick option 3, do nothing.

I am afraid option 2 is going to be chosen for us if we do not choose option 1.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on February 15, 2019, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 14, 2019, 11:52:56 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2019, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 13, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Yes, this.

There are two other options.  One is an immediate and radical alteration in human lifestyles to massively reduce energy usage.  The other is to face trillions of dollars of economic losses.


...and we will pick option 3, do nothing.

I am afraid option 2 is going to be chosen for us if we do not choose option 1.

Yeah, option 3 is the same as option 2.

Grey Fox

These are not the options. We will get trillions of dollars of economic losses no matter what. It's between having our current civilization going into the future or a significaly reduced numbers of humans on this planet.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.