Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

Started by Syt, November 17, 2015, 05:50:30 AM

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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:02:31 PM
More like hundreds of scientists, who have a very vested interest in advocating for this, to the tune of billions of dollars.

How do these hundreds of scientists have a vested interest in climate change, to the tune of billions of dollars?

Monoriu

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:03:35 PM


That graph is from NASA and contains the raw satellite data, unaltered, unlike the NOAA data set.

I don't doubt this, but I have handled enough data and drawn enough graphs myself to know that, very often, it is misleading to present the raw data without appropriate adjustments. 

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2015, 08:04:51 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:02:31 PM
More like hundreds of scientists, who have a very vested interest in advocating for this, to the tune of billions of dollars.

How do these hundreds of scientists have a vested interest in climate change, to the tune of billions of dollars?

I think he's talking about grant money, which they would get away, because governments have a vested interest in knowing about the weather.  Presumably the guys working in the private sector who are tasked with debunking this global conspiracy don't have a vested interest.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Monoriu

I am well aware that scientists are very often wrong.  I don't preclude the possibility that, people hundreds of years from now may look back and think the global warming thing is wrong.  Doctors once told me that germs can't survive in the stomach.  A few years later they told me that all my problems could be solved by killing the germs there. 

Despite this, I still think we should err on the side of caution by believing that global warming is happening.  There is more than enough evidence to suggest that it is true, and the consqeuences are dire.  Plus, even if global warming doesn't exist, burning coal has enough negative health effects that it warrants regulation. 

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Monoriu


Razgovory

Anyway, climate deniers have a limited point.  Science (as we know it), is never in a finished state.  Things do get over turned and caution should be taken when acting on scientific facts.  However, it only goes so far.  You don't put off appendectomy (I had to look up how to spell this word), hoping there is a revolution in medicine.  Some times you must act, even with imperfect information.  Honestly, I don't think there is much of a chance of us preventing major climatic changes.  We will just have to live with the effects and hopefully mitigate the worst of them.

Han's conspiracy theories are of course bonkers.  When he tells us he came to these conclusions himself he reminds of those all those kooks who attempt to explain how a perpetual motion machine works to physics professors.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:02:31 PM
Over the last 20 years the field has been hijacked by political activists to the degree that there are hardly any scientists left in the field.

Do you get paid to spread this kind of propaganda or is it something you do on your own time?
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

Liep

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2015, 08:04:51 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:02:31 PM
More like hundreds of scientists, who have a very vested interest in advocating for this, to the tune of billions of dollars.

How do these hundreds of scientists have a vested interest in climate change, to the tune of billions of dollars?

I'm pretty sure global warming has kick started a billion dollar industry, but the climate scientists aren't seeing any of that.
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Razgovory

Quote from: crazy canuck on November 18, 2015, 08:35:33 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on November 17, 2015, 08:02:31 PM
Over the last 20 years the field has been hijacked by political activists to the degree that there are hardly any scientists left in the field.

Do you get paid to spread this kind of propaganda or is it something you do on your own time?

He has in the past.  He used to work in Psyops.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Razgovory on November 17, 2015, 10:34:05 PM
Anyway, climate deniers have a limited point.  Science (as we know it), is never in a finished state.  Things do get over turned and caution should be taken when acting on scientific facts.

That the temperature graphs only go back to the 1880s is a weakness. Every time I see that data I cringe from that. It's either use it and be vulnerable to the ridicule or hire Marty McFly to go back in time and take measurements in geological timeframes.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Razgovory

I think there are ones that go back further then that.  Globally the climate has gotten cooler over the last several million years.  This is because the carbon in the atmosphere is slowly being fixed into the soil and fossilized.  Most carbon just goes back into  the cycle, but some of it in things like peat bogs stay in the soil.  Eventually it become things like oil and coal.  When we burn coal that carbon that had been stuck in the ground since the days dinosaurs is released bringing back a prehistoric type climate.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

viper37

Quote from: Razgovory on November 17, 2015, 09:15:05 PM
What kind of doctors were these Mono?
Chinese doctors.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 18, 2015, 07:48:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 17, 2015, 10:34:05 PM
Anyway, climate deniers have a limited point.  Science (as we know it), is never in a finished state.  Things do get over turned and caution should be taken when acting on scientific facts.

That the temperature graphs only go back to the 1880s is a weakness. Every time I see that data I cringe from that. It's either use it and be vulnerable to the ridicule or hire Marty McFly to go back in time and take measurements in geological timeframes.
they have temp graphs that go further than that, but these are reconstructed climate data, hence why they are not often included.  they are subject to complex mathematical models instead of recorded measures.  Complex mathematical models can sometimes be proven wrong, due to a simple (all things being relative) error somewhere, and it did happen in the past that data had to be revised, just like it is now.  And the fluctuations over 4 billion years aren't that practical to analyse current policies.
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OttoVonBismarck

I think it's possible that climate scientists engage in publishing stuff that is then presented with hyperbole that overstates their findings, but I've never had the energy to dig really deep into climate science. I'll admit that I'm too lazy to do so, and that when I'm asked to choose between a large number of real scientists and far right Republicans and people funded by the fossil fuel industry I have an intrinsic bias toward just accepting what the real scientists say.

The way I see it even if, somehow we are totally wrong about climate change, fossil fuel emissions cause tons of bad things for the environment and public health, both in the burning and extraction of them. So if we find out in 2050 "eh, some mechanism we didn't understand means we didn't really need to phase out fossil fuels", I'd be cool with that anyway. Renewables give us more energy independence (same for nuclear), even though I do know we have significant fossil fuel reserves and shale reserves that have never been tapped, and don't cause all the environmental health problems.