Dept of Education declares that school must allow boy to shower with girls

[crazy canuck]

Oh wait you are talking about anti-discrimination laws. Well I don't think those have specific standards on how to apply them. How to do that, I thought, was the topic of conversation. I suppose it could involve mandating a nationwide gender education standard. But wow...

I don't think so.  I am not sure why each school district couldn't create its own policy so long as that policy met the wider requirements of the applicable legislation. 

[The Brain]

Can't we identify all the morans in the world and then have them use the "special shower"? Problem solved.

[crazy canuck]

Can't we identify all the morans in the world and then have them use the "special shower"? Problem solved.

I don't think you would agree with who we would identify.

[Martinus]

I don't really understand your point.  What was being enforced here was Human Rights Legislation which was itself enacted by a democratically elected body.

My point was exactly that. This was a school board elected by a community that supported these ideas and passed legislation to address it. I think that is great.

But I thought we were discussing an order passed down by the Department of Education

Oh wait you are talking about anti-discrimination laws. Well I don't think those have specific standards on how to apply them. How to do that, I thought, was the topic of conversation. I suppose it could involve mandating a nationwide gender education standard. But wow...

But the finding in the case quoted was that the school's behaviour violated anti-discrimination laws - presumably these were laws passed by someone with legislative power (and hopefully of a higher rank than the school's board). So again I am not sure what your problem is.

[Syt]

Just build a separate unique snowflake shower for all the precious deviants. Problem solved.

Don't you have kitchens to sell, Slargos?

[Martinus]

I don't know that would say that though yes I think teachers and administrators being smacked for spreading ignorant and backwards views. I also don't fear culture wars as I see them as a great opportunity to grind the outdated into the ground. Very unlikely that at my former high school today would a health teacher shame gay students by stating anal sex is bad as the anus is an exit only area.

Well I think we are in agreement here. I was responding to Marty claiming that if any girls have a problem with somebody who is physically male in their shower they should be educated to be right thinking. That seems a bit...difficult to pull off unless the community and school board are on board.

Again I am not sure I agree. I am not talking about educating to be "right thinking". I am talking about educating about facts (such as "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals"). Surely, if the community and the school board was "educating" students that the Earth is flat and is in fact one of the genitals of Satan, Our Supreme Lord and Saviour, the Board of Education would have a right to intervene. How else would you enforce compliance with the national curriculum (which may - and in fact should - include anti-discrimination education).

[Valmy]

Oh wait you are talking about anti-discrimination laws. Well I don't think those have specific standards on how to apply them. How to do that, I thought, was the topic of conversation. I suppose it could involve mandating a nationwide gender education standard. But wow...

I don't think so.  I am not sure why each school district couldn't create its own policy so long as that policy met the wider requirements of the applicable legislation. 

Exactly. Each district will be creating its own policy to match a federal standard based on this ruling. So it should be one people can reasonably apply that protects trans students without causing too much of a shit storm for the local communities.

[Martinus]

Can't we identify all the morans in the world and then have them use the "special shower"? Problem solved.

I don't like where this is heading. 

[Martinus]

Oh wait you are talking about anti-discrimination laws. Well I don't think those have specific standards on how to apply them. How to do that, I thought, was the topic of conversation. I suppose it could involve mandating a nationwide gender education standard. But wow...

I don't think so.  I am not sure why each school district couldn't create its own policy so long as that policy met the wider requirements of the applicable legislation. 

Exactly. Each district will be creating its own policy to match a federal standard based on this ruling. So it should be one people can reasonably apply that protects trans students without causing too much of a shit storm for the local communities.

Other than practical consideration for accomodating bigots, why exactly would that be?

Going by that logic, Brown vs. Board of Education also created a lot of "shit storm for the local communities". But when it did, someone braver than you sent in the National Guard.

[The Brain]

I don't know that would say that though yes I think teachers and administrators being smacked for spreading ignorant and backwards views. I also don't fear culture wars as I see them as a great opportunity to grind the outdated into the ground. Very unlikely that at my former high school today would a health teacher shame gay students by stating anal sex is bad as the anus is an exit only area.

Well I think we are in agreement here. I was responding to Marty claiming that if any girls have a problem with somebody who is physically male in their shower they should be educated to be right thinking. That seems a bit...difficult to pull off unless the community and school board are on board.

Again I am not sure I agree. I am not talking about educating to be "right thinking". I am talking about educating about facts (such as "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals"). Surely, if the community and the school board was "educating" students that the Earth is flat and is in fact one of the genitals of Satan, Our Supreme Lord and Saviour, the Board of Education would have a right to intervene. How else would you enforce compliance with the national curriculum (which may - and in fact should - include anti-discrimination education).

Your idea that there is a strict dividing line between 100% boy and 0% boy with no middle ground is weird.

[Valmy]

Again I am not sure I agree. I am not talking about educating to be "right thinking". I am talking about educating about facts (such as "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals"). Surely, if the community and the school board was "educating" students that the Earth is flat and is in fact one of the genitals of Satan, Our Supreme Lord and Saviour, the Board of Education would have a right to intervene. How else would you enforce compliance with the national curriculum (which may - and in fact should - include anti-discrimination education).

Right so if a girl, or her family or whatever, freak out that somebody they think is a boy is allowed in their shower they are wrong and must be taught to be correct. Ergo 'right thinking'.

[Martinus]

I don't know that would say that though yes I think teachers and administrators being smacked for spreading ignorant and backwards views. I also don't fear culture wars as I see them as a great opportunity to grind the outdated into the ground. Very unlikely that at my former high school today would a health teacher shame gay students by stating anal sex is bad as the anus is an exit only area.

Well I think we are in agreement here. I was responding to Marty claiming that if any girls have a problem with somebody who is physically male in their shower they should be educated to be right thinking. That seems a bit...difficult to pull off unless the community and school board are on board.

Again I am not sure I agree. I am not talking about educating to be "right thinking". I am talking about educating about facts (such as "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals"). Surely, if the community and the school board was "educating" students that the Earth is flat and is in fact one of the genitals of Satan, Our Supreme Lord and Saviour, the Board of Education would have a right to intervene. How else would you enforce compliance with the national curriculum (which may - and in fact should - include anti-discrimination education).

Your idea that there is a strict dividing line between 100% boy and 0% boy with no middle ground is weird.

I don't have such idea - that is why I support the Vancouverian policy Crazy Canuck quoted, which calls for such cases to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. We are talking of possibly a handful of students per school, so there is no need for a "one size fits all" policy.

[Valmy]

Other than practical consideration for accomodating bigots, why exactly would that be?

Going by that logic, Brown vs. Board of Education also created a lot of "shit storm for the local communities". But when it did, someone braver than you sent in the National Guard.

Oh FFS. Transgendered students are not be segregated out of school. We are talking about bathroom accommodations.

[The Brain]

I don't know that would say that though yes I think teachers and administrators being smacked for spreading ignorant and backwards views. I also don't fear culture wars as I see them as a great opportunity to grind the outdated into the ground. Very unlikely that at my former high school today would a health teacher shame gay students by stating anal sex is bad as the anus is an exit only area.

Well I think we are in agreement here. I was responding to Marty claiming that if any girls have a problem with somebody who is physically male in their shower they should be educated to be right thinking. That seems a bit...difficult to pull off unless the community and school board are on board.

Again I am not sure I agree. I am not talking about educating to be "right thinking". I am talking about educating about facts (such as "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals"). Surely, if the community and the school board was "educating" students that the Earth is flat and is in fact one of the genitals of Satan, Our Supreme Lord and Saviour, the Board of Education would have a right to intervene. How else would you enforce compliance with the national curriculum (which may - and in fact should - include anti-discrimination education).

Your idea that there is a strict dividing line between 100% boy and 0% boy with no middle ground is weird.

I don't have such idea - that is why I support the Vancouverian policy Crazy Canuck quoted, which calls for such cases to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. We are talking of possibly a handful of students per school, so there is no need for a "one size fits all" policy.

You presented "a transgendered student is not a boy despite being born with male genitals" as a fact.

[Valmy]

I don't have such idea - that is why I support the Vancouverian policy Crazy Canuck quoted, which calls for such cases to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. We are talking of possibly a handful of students per school, so there is no need for a "one size fits all" policy.

Yes but there has to be a minimum standard nationwide if this is a human rights issue. So sure a school district or board may make rulings on a case by case basis to benefit the student and the community but there has to be a baseline of compliance that suits every case. If this is a human rights issue and it seems to be.