Routine Shootings at US Schools and Universities Megathread.

[HVC]

They gave guns to some tax collectors and made them the presidents bodyguard



*very over simplified

Are you talking about the creation of the secret service?

Yup. Started off as part of the treasury IIRC

[The Larch]

They gave guns to some tax collectors and made them the presidents bodyguard



*very over simplified

Are you talking about the creation of the secret service?

Yup. Started off as part of the treasury IIRC

Well, I don't think that giving a president a security detail is exactly a massive escalation of things. 

[The Larch]

So apparently the Missouri house of representatives, right after this shooting, is voting on making gun & ammo sales tax-free. 

[HVC]

They gave guns to some tax collectors and made them the presidents bodyguard



*very over simplified

Are you talking about the creation of the secret service?

Yup. Started off as part of the treasury IIRC

Well, I don't think that giving a president a security detail is exactly a massive escalation of things. 

It was the only thing I could think of that fit what he said

[HVC]

So apparently the Missouri house of representatives, right after this shooting, is voting on making gun & ammo sales tax-free. 

Lobby money is worth a few dead kids.

[Grey Fox]

They gave guns to some tax collectors and made them the presidents bodyguard



*very over simplified

Are you talking about the creation of the secret service?

Yup. Started off as part of the treasury IIRC

Well, I don't think that giving a president a security detail is exactly a massive escalation of things. 

That's only because so much time has passed that the change seems mundane. They also turned and turn where the President goes/is into a fortress.

[HVC]

Lincoln created the secret service, but he was also the first on killed. So, it didn't work 

[Duque de Bragança]

They gave guns to some tax collectors and made them the presidents bodyguard



*very over simplified

Are you talking about the creation of the secret service?

Yup. Started off as part of the treasury IIRC

Still part of Treasury, according to William Friedkin's To Live and Die in L.A. 

[Valmy]

So apparently the Missouri house of representatives, right after this shooting, is voting on making gun & ammo sales tax-free. 

The problem with the idea that deterrence is the way to go is that these shootings are not being by criminals trying to achieve some sort of rational goal. This isn't gangs trying to kidnap kids to hold them for ransom or organized crime trying to defend their drug selling turf or something like that. Those kinds of groups would be concerned if suddenly their goals of making money through criminal activity were really dangerous all the sudden.

But these school shooters, to them being killed is not a bug but a feature. So it seems to be the danger of having loads of weapons in a building full of children and untrained adults, with all the potential for tragic accidents, offset the probability that a school shooter may be taken out while their body count is still low. It doesn't seem likely that the school shooting would not occur at all, just that maybe if some well trained security person were on site maybe they might make it marginally less deadly...maybe.

I don't think deterrence is going to do anything. But, granted, I haven't seen a breakdown looking at the types of schools these shootings have occurred in vs their particular security arrangements. What do I know? Maybe schools with hired security goons have an advantage. But IIRC even Columbine, one of the first big school shootings, had a security guy he just lost his nerve when the moment came...which is always a risk with human beings going into live fire situations for the first time.

Back in the 1980s we had much more of a consensus on gun control and even then the measures were pretty limited I thought. But also back in those days gun violence was much more gang and criminal related. Back then gun control was limited by the fact that these types were going to get guns anyway, it was the whole "if guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns" idea. Well now shootings are not being done by criminals but by randos with a weird nihilistic death wish. Though granted I guess I cannot ignore the fact that after the Brady bill gun violence did go down significantly for awhile (along with other sorts of violence...what was going on in the 1990s?).

But since we are unlikely to ever get the other major party on board with gun control measures, I sure wish we were actively and aggressively pursuing other angles. The whole idea that the government should not be involved in crime prevention because they would just screw it up is a weird kind of position to take even for a small government conservative. What? Do we need private militias roaming the streets gunning down all suspected school shooters pre-emptively? Is that going to make things better?

So while I get it and I don't expect Democrats to just drop the gun control thing, but since the other side is so intractable and so sure that this isn't about preventing mass shootings but instead setting up a Stalinist Police State...maybe see what the Republicans are willing to do? As I said they talked about mental health. Ok that's great. I think also we need to develop a sophisticated profile of who these shooters are and keep people who fit that profile under surveillance. When they start purchasing guns law enforcement should be on high alert. It seems like every time we hear about a mass shooting, it is some known mentally unstable person who the community is aware is dangerous suddenly started purchasing weaponry. If the police make this a priority, I think we have a decent shot of preventing a few of these from occurring. These are the new domestic terrorists of our day and should be considered as much.

[Oexmelin]

Republicans are not willing to do anything. Mental health is just empty talk. It's the current version of thoughts and prayers. That's the point. The issue is much more profitable politically as a cultural marker. Once you have people sending Christmas cards with assault weapons, you can be sure it's not about finding a solution.

[The Minsky Moment]

Propose a multi-billion program to aggressively address the mental health crisis.  See how many Republicans vote for it.

The only thing Republicans are willing to do to help people who are mentally ill is nominate one of them for President.

[mongers]

I won't do it, but I might as well lock this thread I started, as it's just so depressing and nothing will change the situation.

I wonder if the Aztec also had significant opposition to their blood sacrifices?

[The Larch]

I wonder if the Aztec also had significant opposition to their blood sacrifices?

I believe that some other Mesoamerican tribes actually allied with the Spaniards because of the Aztec's fondness for human sacrifices.

[Sheilbh]

I believe that some other Mesoamerican tribes actually allied with the Spaniards because of the Aztec's fondness for human sacrifices.

Although I think most other Mesoamerican cultures practiced human sacrifices. I think it was less that they were unhappy with the idea and more than they weren't happy being sacrificed, which is fair enough.

I remember chatting with a woman who was a little annoyed at how modern Mexico had adopted Aztec symbols and there's lots about them especially in Mexico City. But she's Zapotec and they were conquered by the Aztecs and that's alsoo part of the story that I think she felt was a bit missing.

[Razgovory]

Propose a multi-billion program to aggressively address the mental health crisis.  See how many Republicans vote for it.

The only thing Republicans are willing to do to help people who are mentally ill is nominate one of them for President.