Routine Shootings at US Schools and Universities Megathread.

Started by mongers, October 23, 2015, 10:19:03 AM

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Camerus

I don't see any reason to believe democracy or civil liberties depend upon an armed citizenry.

Oexmelin

Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2018, 08:31:38 PM
If it's jingoistic to prefer the US system to the Chinese, then count me in, by jingo!

No, it's jingoistic to raise the stakes of the conversation to such silly heights when all that has been said is that the current US stance on mass shootings, and gun control, are highly "unusual" and "unreasonable". No one has seriously been arguing that the only alternative to the current US situation is to turn the American political system into a Chinese-style dictatorial regime.

I suspect, though I may be wrong, that what irks here is that foreigners continue to be appalled, and call attention to this highly "unusual" aspect of the US, while Americans are resigned to it. Jingoism comes in when it's the source of the criticism (foreigners) rather than the substance of it, that provokes a reaction.
Que le grand cric me croque !

11B4V

Quote from: Valmy on February 14, 2018, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 14, 2018, 07:43:34 PM
Frankly, I've stopped caring about these shootings.  These things are bound to happen as long as the US continues its highly unusual and unreasonable stance on guns.  Wake me up when the regulations change, and I don't expect that to happen any time soon. 

The gun people won. I am basically in the same boat you are at this point. Of course even if regulations did change it would take decades before it would have much of an impact.

Quitters
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Valmy

Quote from: 11B4V on February 14, 2018, 08:49:10 PM
Quitters

Hey I am always open to other methods to fighting school shootings. Maybe heavily armed defense drones.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

11B4V

Quote from: Valmy on February 14, 2018, 08:51:00 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 14, 2018, 08:49:10 PM
Quitters

Hey I am always open to other methods to fighting school shootings. Maybe heavily armed defense drones.

50 years ago gay marriage was a pipe dream. With guns it will take time too, but it will get there.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Ed Anger

Quote from: Valmy on February 14, 2018, 08:51:00 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 14, 2018, 08:49:10 PM
Quitters

Hey I am always open to other methods to fighting school shootings. Maybe heavily armed defense drones.

One of the local systems near me(Riverside) has put guns into the school that authorized people can access the gun safe.

I assume it won't work as the teachers would wet their pants. LIBERUL TEACHERS.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Oexmelin on February 14, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2018, 08:31:38 PM
If it's jingoistic to prefer the US system to the Chinese, then count me in, by jingo!

No, it's jingoistic to raise the stakes of the conversation to such silly heights when all that has been said is that the current US stance on mass shootings, and gun control, are highly "unusual" and "unreasonable". No one has seriously been arguing that the only alternative to the current US situation is to turn the American political system into a Chinese-style dictatorial regime.

I suspect, though I may be wrong, that what irks here is that foreigners continue to be appalled, and call attention to this highly "unusual" aspect of the US, while Americans are resigned to it. Jingoism comes in when it's the source of the criticism (foreigners) rather than the substance of it, that provokes a reaction.

Not foreigners. Mono. A guy who won't say a word against his own government but feels free to criticize mine.

But that's beside the point. I do believe guns have a deterrent effect on government agents acting with impunity and I do believe an armed populace is less accepting of limitations on its liberty. That's not to say the US and Chinese systems are the only options, but... It does seem like Euros are more deferential to their governments and more amenable to restrictions on their liberty than we are.

That's not to say I oppose various gun control measures that might be proposed in congress. But I think the right to bear arms is important.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

I'd like to say that I don't believe that guns (at least in the hands of civilians) have any deterrent effect on government.  I don't know why this fantasy that the government is kept in check by gun owners is so pervasive in the US.  Do other countries have it?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
I'd like to say that I don't believe that guns (at least in the hands of civilians) have any deterrent effect on government.  I don't know why this fantasy that the government is kept in check by gun owners is so pervasive in the US.  Do other countries have it?

I don't know why you can't distinguish between government and government agents.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

The Brain

There are certainly armed citizens in Sweden who at least attempt to intimidate government agents. They are a small minority though, and they don't use legally acquired firearms.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

The Brain

Might be mildly interesting to know: there are about 2 million registered civilian firearms in Sweden (pop 10 million).
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Grey Fox

Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2018, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
I'd like to say that I don't believe that guns (at least in the hands of civilians) have any deterrent effect on government.  I don't know why this fantasy that the government is kept in check by gun owners is so pervasive in the US.  Do other countries have it?

I don't know why you can't distinguish between government and government agents.

In this instance the distinction is irrelevant. Americans are afraid of their own government & have been since the start.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Razgovory

Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2018, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
I'd like to say that I don't believe that guns (at least in the hands of civilians) have any deterrent effect on government.  I don't know why this fantasy that the government is kept in check by gun owners is so pervasive in the US.  Do other countries have it?

I don't know why you can't distinguish between government and government agents.


I don't know what you are getting at here.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

mongers

Quote from: Razgovory on February 15, 2018, 08:16:13 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 14, 2018, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2018, 10:05:30 PM
I'd like to say that I don't believe that guns (at least in the hands of civilians) have any deterrent effect on government.  I don't know why this fantasy that the government is kept in check by gun owners is so pervasive in the US.  Do other countries have it?

I don't know why you can't distinguish between government and government agents.


I don't know what you are getting at here.

Government = evil entity.

Govt. agents =  mouth of Sauron.

All gun owners = potential heroes.

:unsure:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"