US boy, 11, held for shooting dead eight-year-old neighbour

[Razgovory]

Americans have forgotten the tactile pleasure of beating someone with a baton.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Americans have forgotten the tactile pleasure of beating someone with a baton.

Apparently not, since the chart posted with the article indicates we have a significant lead on the rest of the developed world in non-gun homicides as well.  In fact, we appear to still beat everyone else in total homicides with all the gun homicides removed.

[Malthus]

Put simply: Americans have a higher appetite for risk.

Could be a dozen reasons why. It was risky to cross the ocean back in the day. Who knows.

That is an interesting take on it.  My view is that Americans are more fearful and have a greater desire to protect themselves from perceived risks.  I think back to the story we lampooned a few years back about the American who felt naked and threatened when he didn't have his gun when travelling in Canada.  If Americans have a higher appetite for risk then gun ownership should go down not up (at least using the normal NRA reasoning).

Well, if Americans are more frightened about being murdered, they have reason to be - according to the chart in the OP! 

[crazy canuck]

Put simply: Americans have a higher appetite for risk.

Could be a dozen reasons why. It was risky to cross the ocean back in the day. Who knows.

That is an interesting take on it.  My view is that Americans are more fearful and have a greater desire to protect themselves from perceived risks.  I think back to the story we lampooned a few years back about the American who felt naked and threatened when he didn't have his gun when travelling in Canada.  If Americans have a higher appetite for risk then gun ownership should go down not up (at least using the normal NRA reasoning).

Well, if Americans are more frightened about being murdered, they have reason to be - according to the chart in the OP! 

I didn't say their fear wasn't reasonable.  I am just disagreeing with the notion that they are greater risk takers.  They are certainly more violent and that may be the most significant cultural difference.

[MadImmortalMan]

I didn't say their fear wasn't reasonable.  I am just disagreeing with the notion that they are greater risk takers.  They are certainly more violent and that may be the most significant cultural difference.

Greater than who? I'd put Canadians higher on the risk scale too.

Let's just say the bell curve is flatter in North America. More outliers in both directions. Taking risks is far more culturally acceptable than, say, in Japan. I used to think it was mostly from a frontier history, but now I think it's more than just that. There's just not as many rules to follow. The unspoken kind.

[garbon]

I was a boy that age and yes, I knew at 11 that shooting a gun at someone kills that person. Maybe I was smarter than him?

It's not so much a question of "not knowing what the effect would be", or "not knowing something was wrong".

I mean my 5 year old knows that hitting his brothers is wrong, and that it will hurt his brothers if he does it.  Yet still, while being a good kid, he has hit his brothers.  His immature brain still lacks a lot of ability to plan ahead and has poor impulse control.

Those skills develop over time, but are still quite immature at ages 10-11.

I think a child like that is then clearly a danger to society.  I think at 11, the worst/most impulsive thing I did was sneak and read the sex columns in my mother's Cosmopolitan's at night.

[mongers]

I was a boy that age and yes, I knew at 11 that shooting a gun at someone kills that person. Maybe I was smarter than him?

It's not so much a question of "not knowing what the effect would be", or "not knowing something was wrong".

I mean my 5 year old knows that hitting his brothers is wrong, and that it will hurt his brothers if he does it.  Yet still, while being a good kid, he has hit his brothers.  His immature brain still lacks a lot of ability to plan ahead and has poor impulse control.

Those skills develop over time, but are still quite immature at ages 10-11.

I think a child like that is then clearly a danger to society.  I think at 11, the worst/most impulsive thing I did was sneak and read the sex columns in my mother's Cosmopolitan's at night.

You were oppressed, as a youngster I openly read Cosmo at home. [ child of the 60s ]

[garbon]

Americans have forgotten the tactile pleasure of beating someone with a baton.

Apparently not, since the chart posted with the article indicates we have a significant lead on the rest of the developed world in non-gun homicides as well.  In fact, we appear to still beat everyone else in total homicides with all the gun homicides removed.

Is there no correlation between homicide rate and say...population? I saw this that suggested at least when looking at municipalities you need to think about the extent to which a crime rate is influence by population of each city. (http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf) And then here we are looking at comparison countries where at best only the UK can be said to have any sort of comparison on pop size.

Not to negate, of course, cultural factors that go into US rates.

[garbon]

I was a boy that age and yes, I knew at 11 that shooting a gun at someone kills that person. Maybe I was smarter than him?

It's not so much a question of "not knowing what the effect would be", or "not knowing something was wrong".

I mean my 5 year old knows that hitting his brothers is wrong, and that it will hurt his brothers if he does it.  Yet still, while being a good kid, he has hit his brothers.  His immature brain still lacks a lot of ability to plan ahead and has poor impulse control.

Those skills develop over time, but are still quite immature at ages 10-11.

I think a child like that is then clearly a danger to society.  I think at 11, the worst/most impulsive thing I did was sneak and read the sex columns in my mother's Cosmopolitan's at night.

You were oppressed, as a youngster I openly read Cosmo at home. [ child of the 60s ]

Well it was really self-oppression. I don't actually know if my parents would have cared or not.

[DGuller]

I think a child like that is then clearly a danger to society.  I think at 11, the worst/most impulsive thing I did was sneak and read the sex columns in my mother's Cosmopolitan's at night.

Yeah, seriously.  If Meri is right, then all of us absolutely need to have guns.  To protect ourselves from all those psycho 11 year old boys running around.

[MadImmortalMan]

Is there no correlation between homicide rate and say...population? I saw this that suggested at least when looking at municipalities you need to think about the extent to which a crime rate is influence by population of each city. (http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf) And then here we are looking at comparison countries where at best only the UK can be said to have any sort of comparison on pop size.

Not to negate, of course, cultural factors that go into US rates.

Well, it makes sense that the more people are jammed into a space, the more conflicts will arise between them. Isn't a lot of Europe more densely populated than the US though?

[garbon]

Is there no correlation between homicide rate and say...population? I saw this that suggested at least when looking at municipalities you need to think about the extent to which a crime rate is influence by population of each city. (http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf) And then here we are looking at comparison countries where at best only the UK can be said to have any sort of comparison on pop size.

Not to negate, of course, cultural factors that go into US rates.

Well, it makes sense that the more people are jammed into a space, the more conflicts will arise between them. Isn't a lot of Europe more densely populated than the US though?

I don't think it is that simple. LA has something like half the population of New York, a third more in land area (so significantly lower density) and a higher murder rate.

[Valmy]

Americans have forgotten the tactile pleasure of beating someone with a baton.

Apparently not, since the chart posted with the article indicates we have a significant lead on the rest of the developed world in non-gun homicides as well.  In fact, we appear to still beat everyone else in total homicides with all the gun homicides removed.

We need to take action and expand the definition of the 'developed world'.

[Eddie Teach]

I would have thumbed through Cosmo looking at the pictures of models, but my mom got Good Housekeeping instead. 

[Malthus]

Americans have forgotten the tactile pleasure of beating someone with a baton.

Apparently not, since the chart posted with the article indicates we have a significant lead on the rest of the developed world in non-gun homicides as well.  In fact, we appear to still beat everyone else in total homicides with all the gun homicides removed.

Is there no correlation between homicide rate and say...population? I saw this that suggested at least when looking at municipalities you need to think about the extent to which a crime rate is influence by population of each city. (http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf) And then here we are looking at comparison countries where at best only the UK can be said to have any sort of comparison on pop size.

Not to negate, of course, cultural factors that go into US rates.

Canada is actually very similar in that respect to the US - most of the population is urban. While Canada as a whole isn't densly populated, most of the population lives in a small area of it, a strip across the southern border - much of Canada is very sparsely populated.