Volkswagen cheatd on diesel emissions, faces $ 18 billion fine

[crazy canuck]

To me the most damaging thing is the fact that they cannot be trusted. If they blatantly cheat like this you have to assume that they cheat regarding anything and everything. That's just basic safety precautions.

Agreed.  Around here Volkswagen products are marketed as engineering you can rely on.   So much for that.

[dps]

I assume that the testers would be informed that certain makes and models require "special testing" because of the software cheat.

I don't know about that.  I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, each state has its own standards for inspections, but AFAIK, within each state, the testing is pretty much standardized (mostly, see below).  Plus, some states don't require inspections at all, and some of the ones that do I think don't require emissions testing.   

In Ontario at least, a car has to pass emissions testing every couple of years after it is seven years old or you can't get it licenced

Interesting.  IIRC, it's the opposite here in NC--newer cars have to pass an emissions test, but older cars are exempt.

[Zanza]

I would assume the technical specifications will be according to regulation. It's not like you can match any of the numbers anyway. Maximum acceleration, meconium fuel efficiency etc. will never be reached in normal operations.  So it is hard to show that the car does not perform as specified.

However it may still be false advertising if the car preformed better during customer test drives due to disabling the software that controlled emissions.

[Zanza]

Are there any estimates how much extra nitrogen oxide were produced by the cars in circulation? Also, what the impact of that extra emissions was?

It will be negligible compared to what heavy trucks generate perfectly within their limits.

[Zanza]

To me the most damaging thing is the fact that they cannot be trusted. If they blatantly cheat like this you have to assume that they cheat regarding anything and everything. That's just basic safety precautions.

Agreed.  Around here Volkswagen products are marketed as engineering you can rely on.   So much for that.

The damage to the brand will be massive.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Are there any estimates how much extra nitrogen oxide were produced by the cars in circulation? Also, what the impact of that extra emissions was?

I need to dig up the EPA press release, but they said up to 40 times the allowable limit.  I don't know what the allowable limit is, though.

[alfred russel]

It is also possible that there is more to the story than this. I'm sure Volkswagen has a point of view.

[crazy canuck]

It is also possible that there is more to the story than this. I'm sure Volkswagen has a point of view.

Yeah, and they have expressed it.  They have admitted this was done and the CEO has apologized for the company doing it.  They are now in full damage control mode.

What point of view did you have in mind?

[Malthus]

I don't know about that.  I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, each state has its own standards for inspections, but AFAIK, within each state, the testing is pretty much standardized (mostly, see below).  Plus, some states don't require inspections at all, and some of the ones that do I think don't require emissions testing. 

I have no idea what different states require, but I assume certain states will be tough on this - particularly California. 

Interesting.  IIRC, it's the opposite here in NC--newer cars have to pass an emissions test, but older cars are exempt.

Here, there is a "grandfathered" date for "classic" cars - cars older than a certain number of years don't have to pass testing. Can't remember how old they have to be - maybe 20 years or so - but up here, that's elderly for a car (cars actually driven on the roads tend not to survive that long due to salt use).

[alfred russel]

It is also possible that there is more to the story than this. I'm sure Volkswagen has a point of view.

Yeah, and they have expressed it.  They have admitted this was done and the CEO has apologized for the company doing it.  They are now in full damage control mode.

What point of view did you have in mind?

I thought they might not agree with the facts as they have been presented.

[DGuller]

No jail time means nothing will change.

Speaking of jail time, here's a heartwarming story:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/21/us-usa-georgia-salmonella-idUSKCN0RL24H20150921.  Can US ask for Ferdinand Piech's extradition? 

[crazy canuck]

And the class action law suits have started to be filed.

[grumbler]

Flashing the software of a car is done easily and cheaply. If that's all it takes for the recall, Volkswagen won't care much about this particular bit of their obligations. However what's in it for the owners? A free software downgrade of your engine? Why should you want that? To make your car worse and less valuable? 

The motive for the owners who are going to keep their cars is less clear, but not patching will kill the value of the car for resale, since it will likely be illegal to sell the car without the patch.

[DontSayBanana]

Read an interesting article yesterday that mentioned cheating may be more common than we know, because the NO2 levels also correlate with MPG, so they might have been caught between a rock and a hard place in terms of cheating on MPG or cheating on NO2.

[Malthus]

And the class action law suits have started to be filed.

It's a class action made in heaven for plaintiff side class action firms.