Volkswagen cheatd on diesel emissions, faces $ 18 billion fine

[DGuller]

VW is fucked

That's only 10% of their annual revenue(and they'll probably get out of paying the whole amount).

The margins are rather thin in that business.  That 10% of annual revenue translates to 200% of annual profits.

[Eddie Teach]

Ok. I still think the company will survive.

[crazy canuck]

How do you read an automotive engineer?

Reading the posts they make on the Internet.

At least you are good at math.

Is there a joke I'm missing?

Yep

[Berkut]

[Ideologue]

I think about a year ago Joan asked me what I meant by "economic crimes" that deserved execution.  Surely this qualifies.

Consider what they've done.  They have contributed directly and deliberately to the poisoning of the Earth.  They have brazenly defrauded the State.  They have wasted hundreds of thousands of work-hours by building machines that ought never to have been built.  The extraction and production processes for these illegal machines have contributed vast amounts of pollution to the environment.  The criminals have done immense damage to their own company, endangering thousands of jobs and potentially damaging the global economy itself.  500,000 cars will need to be recalled, according to the BBC.  Is this even a matter of removing the offending software?  Must we outright junk 500,000 automobiles that cannot be brought to comply to the law?  If so, that's the kind of ruinous waste of life and money that justifies the gravest punishment.

[The Brain]

I think about a year ago Joan asked me what I meant by "economic crimes" that deserved execution.  Surely this qualifies.

Consider what they've done.  They have contributed directly and deliberately to the poisoning of the Earth.  They have brazenly defrauded the State.  They have wasted hundreds of thousands of work-hours by building machines that ought never to have been built.  The extraction and production processes for these illegal machines have contributed vast amounts of pollution to the environment.  The criminals have done immense damage to their own company, endangering thousands of jobs and potentially damaging the global economy itself.  500,000 cars will need to be recalled, according to the BBC.  Is this even a matter of removing the offending software.  Must we outright 500,000 automobiles that cannot be brought to comply to the law?  If so, that's the kind of ruinous waste of life and money that justifies the gravest punishment.

A slap on the wrist and they promise not to do it again seems fine to me.

[Ideologue]

Maybe they should move from diesel to atomic power.

[Grey Fox]

Fixing the emission problem is easy, you just make the software do the cheat version all the time.

That will reduce performance & fuel economy but will comply with the law.

VW will survive, Diesel is in big trouble in America.

[alfred russel]

VW is fucked

That's only 10% of their annual revenue(and they'll probably get out of paying the whole amount).

The margins are rather thin in that business.  That 10% of annual revenue translates to 200% of annual profits.

According to wikipedia, their revenues in 2013 were 197b euro and in 2012 their profits were 21.8b euro.

[Zanza]

General Motors negligently killed 200 people and got a 900 million dollar fine. I doubt they'll have to pay anywhere near the maximum amount. A few billion in fines will hurt them, but will not destroy the company. Their net liquidity at the end of the second quarter was more than 21 billion Euro.

[Zanza]

I wonder what happens if VW *can't* raise its emissions standards on past models. Will they all be recalled?

Recalls are usually only made for safety issues, so this would be rather unusual.

And why would an owner go anyway? For worse performance and fuel consumption? To save the planet?

[Malthus]

I wonder what happens if VW *can't* raise its emissions standards on past models. Will they all be recalled?

Recalls are usually only made for safety issues, so this would be rather unusual.

According to the article, there was already a recall based on this issue, to implement a "software patch":

The California watchdog and the U.S. Environment Protection Agency opened an investigation into Volkswagen in May 2014, according to letters published Friday. Talks between the parties went on for several months, with VW trying to replicate the West Virginia University results. The company said it had identified the reasons for the higher emissions and proposed a fix. That resulted in a recall of nearly 500,000 U.S. vehicles in December to implement a software patch.

My question is whether, if it proves no "patch" could fix the issue, the vehicles would be recalled. I have no idea.

And why would an owner go anyway? For worse performance and fuel consumption? To save the planet?

Presumably, the terms of the recall would favour the owners at the expense of the company.

[The Brain]

Would send a strange message to let them drive around.

[Zanza]

I wonder what happens if VW *can't* raise its emissions standards on past models. Will they all be recalled?

Recalls are usually only made for safety issues, so this would be rather unusual.

According to the article, there was already a recall based on this issue, to implement a "software patch":

The California watchdog and the U.S. Environment Protection Agency opened an investigation into Volkswagen in May 2014, according to letters published Friday. Talks between the parties went on for several months, with VW trying to replicate the West Virginia University results. The company said it had identified the reasons for the higher emissions and proposed a fix. That resulted in a recall of nearly 500,000 U.S. vehicles in December to implement a software patch.

My question is whether, if it proves no "patch" could fix the issue, the vehicles would be recalled. I have no idea.

And why would an owner go anyway? For worse performance and fuel consumption? To save the planet?

Presumably, the terms of the recall would favour the owners at the expense of the company.

Flashing the software of a car is done easily and cheaply. If that's all it takes for the recall, Volkswagen won't care much about this particular bit of their obligations. However what's in it for the owners? A free software downgrade of your engine? Why should you want that? To make your car worse and less valuable? 

[DGuller]

I imagine that if you have a VW car in question, the next time you get your emissions tested, they would not pass your car unless you have the ECU flashed.  Then again, not every state has emissions testing.