How would you make America a dictatorship?

[11B4V]

 

You'd have to get rid of the masons/Jews/lizards.

What did the mason's do to you.

probably messed up construction of his house...

[The Brain]

My impression is that it is very difficult to make the US a dictatorship, certainly much much harder than say Sweden.

[Tonitrus]

I gotta agree with Raz on this one. The idea that members of the public armed with personal arms could stand up to the military of the technological level the US government has is laughable.

I agree...but even if the military didn't have loyalty problems, I doubt they could manage containing/controlling any significant widespread unrest throughout the U.S.  Now sure, perhaps the federal law enforcement apparatus would also be sufficient in dealing with a lot of discontent...but more likely there would also be a lot of opportunistic state governors who'd use an open dictatorship move by the feds to toot their own political horn.  There could be a lot of situations (with the use of state National Guards) that would start out similar to how the southern states started in the ACW...but the geography and demographics are far too different from 1860 to make a good comparison there.

But I also concede to some of Raz's points...there are a lot of people, especially nowadays, who seem to happily trade away liberty for state-provided security. 

[Ideologue]

I gotta agree with Raz on this one. The idea that members of the public armed with personal arms could stand up to the military of the technological level the US government has is laughable.

But I also concede to some of Raz's points...there are a lot of people, especially nowadays, who seem to happily trade away liberty for state-provided security.

[Martinus]

I think a white Christian patriotic dictatorship a'la Salazar's Portugal (just replace Catholicism with one or more protestant sects) would work in the US. A communist one not so much.

American public does not really have a problem with limiting people's freedoms as long as it targets mostly minorities.

[garbon]

I gotta agree with Raz on this one. The idea that members of the public armed with personal arms could stand up to the military of the technological level the US government has is laughable.

I agree...but even if the military didn't have loyalty problems, I doubt they could manage containing/controlling any significant widespread unrest throughout the U.S.  Now sure, perhaps the federal law enforcement apparatus would also be sufficient in dealing with a lot of discontent...but more likely there would also be a lot of opportunistic state governors who'd use an open dictatorship move by the feds to toot their own political horn.  There could be a lot of situations (with the use of state National Guards) that would start out similar to how the southern states started in the ACW...but the geography and demographics are far too different from 1860 to make a good comparison there.

Yeah but would that resistance be enough to forestall an eventual win? I can think of two much larger countries where resistance was ultimately futile (though obviously in both cases, their cultures were and are rather different from our own).

[Eddie Teach]

I think a white Christian patriotic dictatorship a'la Salazar's Portugal (just replace Catholicism with one or more protestant sects) would work in the US. A communist one not so much.

American public does not really have a problem with limiting people's freedoms as long as it targets mostly minorities.

You're really about as qualified to comment on what the American public is like as Tyr.

[Admiral Yi]

   You're a goof Marty.

[Razgovory]

But I also concede to some of Raz's points...there are a lot of people, especially nowadays, who seem to happily trade away liberty for state-provided security.

I think there are even more people who would trade their political rights for an advancement of their values or wealth.  I did a poll here once asking if members of Languish would want to be a rich man in a dictatorship or a poor man in a democracy and dictatorship won easily.  In America we like the question "would you sacrifice liberty security".  We answer, "no!" and it makes us feel good.  Questions like "would you sacrifice the right to vote for getting what you want politically", is less pleasant. I think a lot of people would go for that.  When you find a person who is unhappy at the system and complains constantly that it's "broken" and not following the will of the people you have the type of person who may be amendable to a dictatorship.  Such feeling is in both parities.  A minor example could be civil rights act of 1964 (or 1965 I don't remember which one), where we sacrifice part of the right of free association for sake racial harmony.  A shop keeper lost the right refuse service to a person he doesn't like.  Most of us are okay with this, since it's inline with our values and it weakens the rights of people who aren't us.

It should be noted that while the US has never been a dictatorship, it has been a tyranny for some people.  Blacks had it worst, suffering tyranny worse then most dictatorships, and a lot of people were fine with it.  There have been coups against state governments in Louisiana and Arkansas, the "armed hillbilly" was not the guardian democracy in these instances but rather served the forces of despotism.

[Valmy]

Fabricate an emergency, make Congress vote emergency powers to the President. President uses them to rig next elections. Constitutional amendments passed that remove Presidential Term limit and weaken Congress.

I don't think it would last long though, people will only take voting in sham elections for so long around here. Morale in the Federal Government and the Military would collapse over time. The Constitution and the feeling we are about liberty and all that is the source of the government's legitimacy. You probably couldn't do it in an obvious way outside of a short term emergency period. You would need to erode it via informal means.

[garbon]

I did a poll here once asking if members of Languish would want to be a rich man in a dictatorship or a poor man in a democracy and dictatorship won easily.  In America we like the question "would you sacrifice liberty security".  We answer, "no!" and it makes us feel good.  Questions like "would you sacrifice the right to vote for getting what you want politically", is less pleasant. I think a lot of people would go for that.

I don't recall the poll, but sure I'd vote for rich in the dictatorship. After all, I could then haul my ass elsewhere with my monies.

I wouldn't suffer a dictatorship for getting what I want politically as with something like that, only a matter of time before political winds blow against you. Too risky to stack the deck so to speak.

[Razgovory]

I did a poll here once asking if members of Languish would want to be a rich man in a dictatorship or a poor man in a democracy and dictatorship won easily.  In America we like the question "would you sacrifice liberty security".  We answer, "no!" and it makes us feel good.  Questions like "would you sacrifice the right to vote for getting what you want politically", is less pleasant. I think a lot of people would go for that.

I don't recall the poll, but sure I'd vote for rich in the dictatorship. After all, I could then haul my ass elsewhere with my monies.

I wouldn't suffer a dictatorship for getting what I want politically as with something like that, only a matter of time before political winds blow against you. Too risky to stack the deck so to speak.

I do recall you voting against democracy in the poll.  You said that poor people aren't free.

Okay, how about this:  The US passes a constitutional amendment that bans homosexual behavior.  This is done legally though the democratic process.  Would you support a would be dictator who will reverse that constitutional amendment at the cost of an independent judiciary?

[Martinus]

I hate to say that but I agree with most of what Raz is saying in this thread.

[garbon]

No, I wouldn't. No telling what evils would come out of a dictatorship - however benevolent. Course, US would be going to hell in a hand basket if such a backwards move was made that I'd probably seek out fairer climes.

[garbon]

I hate to say that but I agree with most of what Raz is saying in this thread.

Shocking.