Liberté or fraternité - which one is more ignored?

[Camerus]

Perhaps it's my inner Marxist, but I always thought of fraternity as arguing along the lines of the universal brotherhood of man as opposed to the artificial, divisive, exploitative, and hierarchical constructs of feudalism.

This was not totally absent from the rhetoric but I think it mainly got used in a patriotic sense than a universal sense. Do the French of today think it means we are all one nation?

It is funny that the presumption was they developed artificially. They developed quite organically. The client patron relationship is one of the most basic human relations. In fact it has been the basic structure of every Marxist state ever created as well.

Well, there are radical differences in levels of exploitation, etc. in how such relationships might exist across time, cultures and class.  And, in fairness, there were a lot of bullshit constructs, obligations, etc. supporting aristocrats' privileged position and claims to superiority by 1789 that they were now rightly being called on - no matter how gradually and understandably such relationships developed over the centuries.

[grumbler]

Perhaps it's my inner Marxist, but I always thought of fraternity as arguing along the lines of the universal brotherhood of man as opposed to the artificial, divisive, exploitative, and hierarchical constructs of feudalism.

I believe that you are correct.  Examples of the principle in action would include the election of officers in the Volunteers.  Fraternity would be taken to its logical (and disastrous) extreme during the February days of 1848.

[grumbler]

It is funny that the presumption was they developed artificially. They developed quite organically. The client patron relationship is one of the most basic human relations. In fact it has been the basic structure of every Marxist state ever created as well.

I'd argue that feudalism was simply the classic patron-client relationship you mention, stripped of all other trappings.

[Norgy]

It is funny that the presumption was they developed artificially. They developed quite organically. The client patron relationship is one of the most basic human relations. In fact it has been the basic structure of every Marxist state ever created as well.

It is the basic structure of most democracies too. Particularly the US one. Except the clients are elected.

Go Sanders, go Sanders, go, go!

[Martinus]

It is funny that the presumption was they developed artificially. They developed quite organically. The client patron relationship is one of the most basic human relations. In fact it has been the basic structure of every Marxist state ever created as well.

It is the basic structure of most democracies too. Particularly the US one. Except the clients are elected.

Go Sanders, go Sanders, go, go!

It's how the "democracy" of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth worked too. The Commonwealth never had officially recognised aristocracy, but richest land-owning mandates would effectively sponsor several of their clients (usually poorer, sometimes landless nobles) in Parliamentary elections.

[Norgy]

There are local election campaigns here nowadays. The flood of money and the rethorical windmills make me sort of want to opt out.
I'll cast my vote holding my nose. For the most leftist party I can find.